Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
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18-05-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 02:51 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
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18-05-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 02:34 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The evidence I speak of is something that comes after one has placed faith in Christ.

The presence of Christ in the heart of the redeemed is the empirical evidence I speak of and this presence is manifested through the life, actions, words, and thoughts of the redeemed.

I thought empirical evidence was objective thus independent of the observer?
Why, in your model of "empirical evidence" do you first require the observer to have faith (and belief) in Christ in order to be able to observe the empirical evidence proving Christ's existence and divinity?

Isn't your definition circular logic? Isn't it prone to confirmation bias?
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18-05-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 02:34 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The evidence I speak of is something that comes after one has placed faith in Christ.

The presence of Christ in the heart of the redeemed is the empirical evidence I speak of and this presence is manifested through the life, actions, words, and thoughts of the redeemed.

That is not evidence.

It is your mind masturbating to satisfy your brainfarts.

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18-05-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 03:03 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 02:34 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The evidence I speak of is something that comes after one has placed faith in Christ.

The presence of Christ in the heart of the redeemed is the empirical evidence I speak of and this presence is manifested through the life, actions, words, and thoughts of the redeemed.

I thought empirical evidence was objective thus independent of the observer?
Why, in your model of "empirical evidence" do you first require the observer to have faith (and belief) in Christ in order to be able to observe the empirical evidence proving Christ's existence and divinity?

Isn't your definition circular logic? Isn't it prone to confirmation bias?

Faith can be exercised by anyone for everyone has the capacity to exercise it. That is why salvation is by grace through faith. If it had been by grace through empirical observation or by grace through intellectual argumentation, then only certain people would be privy to it.

It would not be like God to make the most essential necessity of man to be available only to those who attended college or were intellectuals.Drinking Beverage
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18-05-2014, 03:19 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 02:32 PM)Anjele Wrote:  ... He knows women atheists and talks to them personally!

Give the man some credit. Other things he may have attempted with women may not have worked out. Being on speaking terms could be a significant achievement.
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18-05-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 03:15 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  It would not be like God to make the most essential necessity of man to be available only to those who attended college or were intellectuals.Drinking Beverage

Why then is the shit so complicated? Basic questions like "why the fuck doesn't X (e.g. global flood) in the Bible match Y that I see here on Earth (e.g. no evidence of global flood)" require long convoluted answers from yes men like yourself. If it's a manual for every man, why do you have to trust some other douche who attended college or is an intellectual to explain it to you?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-05-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 03:00 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 02:51 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

I'm not seeing any evidence as promised.
All I'm seeing is a couple verses from a book.


... Oh, the verses ARE to evidence, right? Okay then.

*ahem*
The FIRST STRENGTH DOOR was opened, but it was a very different for Chosen who took the first plodding, lumbering steps into the labyrinthine caves of Victory Road beyond the DOOR. The corruption of the Chosen of HELIX was a blow to all loyal followers of HELIX, and was only the beginning of the cruel DOMEcracy-laden trails of Victory Road and the AGE OF STRENGTH BOULDERS.

All Hail Lord helix!

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18-05-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 03:15 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Faith can be exercised by anyone for everyone has the capacity to exercise it. That is why salvation is by grace through faith.
What if I randomly choose (or choose because my parents or culture taught me to choose) to have faith in the Indian gods, that all unexplained things happen because in an unobserved way these gods magically make things happen.
Then until such a point that science fills a knowledge gap, I then have "proof" that my gods did it.

(18-05-2014 03:15 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  It would not be like God to make the most essential necessity of man to be available only to those who attended college or were intellectuals.Drinking Beverage
In your belief system, is your god playing a game of Russian roulette, where we spin a wheel, it has a different god in each segment, or no god in one of the segments. So there are about 10,000 options. We spin the wheel and whatever it lands on then that is what we go with. We put faith into the answer and try to convince others to join our group. Then when death comes, your god punishes those that spun on one of the 9,999 wrong options but rewards those that spun on the one right option.

Is your god a gambler, who rewards good blind luck and punishes bad blind luck?
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18-05-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
Oh, man, you mean subjective personal experience magically becomes empirical just because some idiot calls it empirical?

Shit, I've been going about this "science" lark completely wrong.

I'm sure my thesis committee will absolutely embrace my new subjective personal experience based research method.

... this is my signature!
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18-05-2014, 03:58 PM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2014 04:04 PM by djhall.)
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
Jeremy,

As a subjective experience, I don't think anyone would deny that what you describe is something you perceive as real, and is something many other people also perceive as real. However, as skeptics, we recognize a distinction between that which we believe or intuit or feel from subjective experience, and that which is supported through objective, scientific, and logical analysis. These two can be, and often are, in conflict.

I know the earth stands still and the sun circles it, because I can see it with my own eyes and feel the stability of the earth below me. I also know that isn't true and my perception is deceiving me. I know an invisible thing called wind exists and it blows because I can feel it on my skin and see it move the trees. I also know that is real and is molecules of atmospheric gasses moving from areas of high pressure to low pressure.

Sometimes our perceptions deceive us, and sometimes they reveal truths. In this case, the perception does not lend itself to external verification unless god is willing to provide some inspiration that can be objectively verified and is nearly impossible for a human to know absent divine inspiration. That leaves two possibilities. 1) God doesn't exist and this comes from another source or a trick of our mind or perceptions, or 2) God does exist and this is the way he reveals himself to those whom he chooses to. However, neither option can be objectively proven absent further human knowledge or a change in god's approach to revealing himself. One could be skeptical and go with pure reason and reject the notion of a god that only reveals himself so elusively, or one could foster that connection, embrace the perception and experience, and embrace faith in the truth of the experience. Either way, no one can prove you wrong, at least, not at this point in time.

However, the inability to prove you wrong doesn't mean you can prove you are right either. The problem is when you get so committed to one position that you can't see the possibility of the other. There is nothing wrong with believing you are correct and also acknowledging that you can't prove it, and indeed, you may not be able to tell the difference between real and false perception. "I believe I'm right, but I could be wrong," is not a statement of weakness and lack of faith, but is simply an honest and logical evaluation of a subjective experience that resists independent verification.

Jesus is my Stalker: He has graced me with his unconditional love, but if I reject it and refuse to love him in return, he will make my life Hell.
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