Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
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18-05-2014, 04:14 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:10 PM)djhall Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 04:07 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You do not need proof. You need to repent of your sins. That is a choice you will have to make.

And we are back to, "I know I'm right because I know I'm not wrong." Facepalm

Yes I know I am right.

And I know you are fundamentally no different than I am. You are a sinner. I am a sinner. We both need a Saviour.

I used to laugh at this notion too, before I met God. You think it ridiculous. You should. I expect you to think no differently.
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18-05-2014, 04:15 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:12 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 04:09 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  If you would like to know Jesus Christ personally, then repent of your sins and place your faith and trust in Him and ask Him to forgive you and cleanse you of all of your unrighteousness and He will.

He promised to and He cannot lie.

I am living proof.

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but sometimes convenient lies must be abandoned for inconvenient truths.

Funnily enough, that's that believers in all religions say. As per the OP. Which you have in no way addressed.

Subjective personal experience is not compelling. But it is, at the very least, refreshing to see you abandon any futile pretense to anything more than subjective personal experience.

I've tried praying, thanks. Nothing happened. Go figure.

That is not surprising to me in the least.
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18-05-2014, 04:16 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:05 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 04:00 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. No

"In science, empirical evidence is required for a hypothesis to gain acceptance in the scientific community. Normally, this validation is achieved by the scientific method of hypothesis commitment, experimental design, peer review, adversarial review, reproduction of results, conference presentation and journal publication. This requires rigorous communication of hypothesis (usually expressed in mathematics), experimental constraints and controls (expressed necessarily in terms of standard experimental apparatus), and a common understanding of measurement."

So, how do you propose we use the scientific method to finally bring to light this empirical data of "The presence of Christ in the heart of the redeemed"?

I suppose we must first test for this "Christ" you speak of. Then, if found, we have to test for it's presence in your heart (this could get messy). Finally we have to test for this "redeemed" state you espouse.

I'll let you design the experiment, run it a few times to make sure you're getting repeatable results. Afterwards I'll run it using your design to see if I get the same results then we can compare notes OK?

Go.

If you would like to know Jesus Christ personally, then repent of your sins and place your faith and trust in Him and ask Him to forgive you and cleanse you of all of your unrighteousness and He will.

He promised to and He cannot lie.

I am living proof.

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but sometimes convenient lies must be abandoned for inconvenient truths.

Did that. Spent half my life doing just that.

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but sometimes convenient lies must be abandoned for inconvenient truths.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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18-05-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:12 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 02:34 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The presence of Christ in the heart of the redeemed is the empirical evidence I speak of and this presence is manifested through the life, actions, words, and thoughts of the redeemed.

Well if we're talking about empirical evidence then we're talking about observation, experimentation and science. What you are describing is a parasite. We first need to determine how this parasite infects the host and subsequently takes control. Does it only infect humans? Can it infect animals as well? This requires more empirical evidence in the form of animal testing. Also the location of the parasite. If the presence of it is in the heart then it must grow nerve cells to the spinal column up through the blood brain barrier and into the brain. We must also determine how it spreads. It requires an energy supply so the initial hypothesis must be usurping the host's own cells and using them for its own purpose.

This is indeed disturbing. Do you have any sources for this empirical evidence?

The fool has said in his/her heart: "There is no God". They have all become corrupt.
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18-05-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:16 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 04:05 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  If you would like to know Jesus Christ personally, then repent of your sins and place your faith and trust in Him and ask Him to forgive you and cleanse you of all of your unrighteousness and He will.

He promised to and He cannot lie.

I am living proof.

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but sometimes convenient lies must be abandoned for inconvenient truths.

Did that. Spent half my life doing just that.

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but sometimes convenient lies must be abandoned for inconvenient truths.

Nothing you have said is an inconvenience to me.

I am happy to disappoint you.
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18-05-2014, 04:18 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:17 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 04:16 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Did that. Spent half my life doing just that.

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but sometimes convenient lies must be abandoned for inconvenient truths.

Nothing you have said is an inconvenience to me.

I am happy to disappoint you.

Non sequitur, try again.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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18-05-2014, 04:19 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:09 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 03:57 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh, man, you mean subjective personal experience magically becomes empirical just because some idiot calls it empirical?

Shit, I've been going about this "science" lark completely wrong.

I'm sure my thesis committee will absolutely embrace my new subjective personal experience based research method.
If you would like to know Jesus Christ personally, then repent of your sins and place your faith and trust in Him and ask Him to forgive you and cleanse you of all of your unrighteousness and He will.

He promised to and He cannot lie.

I am living proof.

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but sometimes convenient lies must be abandoned for inconvenient truths.

If you are living proof of a god and savior, I will pass. If I want crazy there are plenty of psych wards...I can find it there.

And at the risk of being chastised for not being civil...Fuck you very much.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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18-05-2014, 04:19 PM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2014 04:23 PM by rampant.a.i..)
Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:05 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(18-05-2014 04:00 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. No

"In science, empirical evidence is required for a hypothesis to gain acceptance in the scientific community. Normally, this validation is achieved by the scientific method of hypothesis commitment, experimental design, peer review, adversarial review, reproduction of results, conference presentation and journal publication. This requires rigorous communication of hypothesis (usually expressed in mathematics), experimental constraints and controls (expressed necessarily in terms of standard experimental apparatus), and a common understanding of measurement."

So, how do you propose we use the scientific method to finally bring to light this empirical data of "The presence of Christ in the heart of the redeemed"?

I suppose we must first test for this "Christ" you speak of. Then, if found, we have to test for it's presence in your heart (this could get messy). Finally we have to test for this "redeemed" state you espouse.

I'll let you design the experiment, run it a few times to make sure you're getting repeatable results. Afterwards I'll run it using your design to see if I get the same results then we can compare notes OK?

Go.

If you would like to know Jesus Christ personally, then repent of your sins and place your faith and trust in Him and ask Him to forgive you and cleanse you of all of your unrighteousness and He will.

He promised to and He cannot lie.

I am living proof.

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but sometimes convenient lies must be abandoned for inconvenient truths.

1. That's not empirical evidence

2. God intentionally deceived/lied to Abraham:

The byline was to "Test Abraham's faith," but as God in his omniscience already would have known the extent of Abraham's faith, the only reason for God to deceive would have been simply God desired to intentionally deceive.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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18-05-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:17 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The fool has said in his/her heart: "There is no God". They have all become corrupt.

You're not even trying now are you ...

As I said, boring troll.
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18-05-2014, 04:21 PM
RE: Jeremy E. Walker provides empirical evidence for the Christian God over other...
(18-05-2014 04:10 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  If you would like to know Jesus Christ personally, then repent of your sins and place your faith and trust in Him and ask Him to forgive you and cleanse you of all of your unrighteousness and He will.

He promised to and He cannot lie.

I am living proof.

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but sometimes convenient lies must be abandoned for inconvenient truths.
I have no interest in imaginary friends. I have no predisposition towards a person called Jesus who may or may not have ever existed. Jesus has no more importance or credibility than Hercules, or Maui or Vishnu, or...

What I am interested in, is in knowing what can be known, in solving mysteries.

You speak of your god, your Jesus, your empirical evidence.
I'm interested in empirical evidence, but you have not provided any here, you have suggested I have faith and believe and run with that. But your path doesn't allow me to know the difference between imagination and reality. Why would I choose Jesus over Hercules? There are exponentially more imaginary things than real things. If I take this path then I am much more likely to wind up with an imaginary friend than to know the truth.

I am far too old to have imaginary friends.
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