Jeremy Walker JAQing off, again.
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16-06-2014, 08:16 AM
Jeremy Walker JAQing off, again.
(16-06-2014 04:16 AM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Recently, I was involved in a life-changing series of events. I'm a lifelong agnostic apistavist, and have been since before I discovered a word to describe what I was.

I grew up thinking there was something seriously wrong with me. I could not find a religion I agreed with or even believed the premises of. I have been told for 20 some odd years that I am going to hell for any number of contradictory reasons. And I learned pretty quickly to only tell people I have known and trusted that I'm agnostic.

I have experienced confusion to outright rejection for merely using the adjective, and have been told it's simply not possible to "not believe in anything."

I have watched the utter hypocrisy of people who claim to be religious, but only when it suits them. And I kept it under wraps for a very long time.

I have friends, family, co workers and acquaintances who I deeply respect, who are religious enough I don't think I can clearly state my views around without damaging interpersonal relationships, putting my career at risk, or otherwise ostracizing myself.

This came to a head today, when during a vaguely related fight, I laid into my wife with the grievances and hypocrisy I see in her relatively mild Christian faith, and absolute horror and inhumanity the religion apologizes out of sight.

Without going into too much detail, I have always surrounded myself with predominately female friends (just get along with women better) and for some accursed reason have the type of personality that I can board a city bus, and someone will sit down next to me and tell me their life story, and close friends will reveal lurid details I could live a perfectly happy life without ever having been exposed to.

Suffice it to say, I remember being 13, knowing hell didn't exist, and having my best friend's little sister describe experiences that made me wish it did.

I don't know if I can hold my tongue any longer. For decades, I have watched and listened to horror stories that "turned out alright" because God, and because God will punish terrible human beings whenever he's good and ready and gets around to it.

I hate knowing that karmic retribution, hell and heaven are bullshit.

I hate knowing the statistics of sex abuse,
https://www.rainn.org/statistics

And that 97% of people who commit the most heinous, horrific, destructive act possible to another human being will go unpunished. And it was hard not to cheer out loud watching the end scenes of "Descent" with Rosario Dawson tonight.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_(2007_film)

I have become more outspoken with friends and family, even when it complicates things. I have to endure constant ribbing and chiding from a close friend whose mother is dying, over "nihilism and anger at God," because I can't force myself to believe in the same nebulous deistic god he does, I don't want him to have to face facts.

But I'm fucking angry. I'm livid. At religion, at what it allows people to do to each other, because of a false cosmic do-over that I don't think exists.

I even hear it from my father. My lapsed catholic gnostic atheist father, who is pushing 60, grumpy as fuck, the embodiment of the "angry atheist" caricature religious people portray, and still wants to know "why I care what other people believe."

Because what some people believe allows for pain, suffering, and absolution of things no mortal deserves to be absolved of.

So I find it harder and harder to hold my tongue, from face-to-face, to Facebook, to friends posting pictures of sunsets as proof of God on Instagram.

And it's me. I'm the immoral one, never mind my nonexistent criminal record.

I'm the broken one. The one who cried and prayed and groveled and begged for a sign of what I was supposed to believe in, and got nothing but more angry at the inhumanity of other people.

B. CCTV

You are right where many Christians who have come before you have once been who were agnostic skeptics at one point. You see all the evil that exists in the world. You see the hurt and the pain. You see that despite man's increased knowledge of the world he lives in, he nontheless is still inclined to evil.

You do not dismiss this evil as merely some illusion either. You acknowledge it is real and those who suffer from it are really suffering.

Men like C.S. Lewis realized something that you have yet to realize or acknowledge. That the existence of evil is not evidence against the existence of God, but evidence for the existence of God.

God has so ordered reality that His existence for the sincere seeker is simply undeniable. Your whole life is built around your belief that God does not exist and that all the evil that men do will go unpunished. This is akin to a fish trying to live out of water and on dry land.

It simply is not working for you. You are experiencing a feeling of "angst" or the feeling you get when you know something is not quite right but you cannot discern exactly what it is. Part of you wants to believe that men can determine what is right and wrong and have no one to answer to beyond themselves. But part of you realizes that this simply is not true. Two voices are speaking to you at once. The fact that you are even experiencing this is evidence that the voice of God is still audible.

Christ said that He was the True Shepherd and that His sheep hear His voice.

So, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested and tried me,
though for forty years they saw what I did.
10 That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”[b]
12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”[c]
16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Hebrews 3
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16-06-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 08:16 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  {... standard proselytizing ...}

A man comes on here and tells all and sundry he's had it with liverwurst sandwiches to the point where the very thought of a liverwurst sandwich infuriates him, and gives cases where liverwurst sandwiches real and offered have caused him genuine anguish that has only gotten worse with every instance of liverwurst sandwiches being pushed on him from every direction, and you walk in here and say "I see your trouble, bro, you need to have a liverwurst sandwich". A mind so blind as to say something like that is stupefying to watch, it's like watching a man with perfectly good arms and hands and fingers using only his feet with boots on to do everything with. Incredible.
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16-06-2014, 06:37 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 08:58 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 08:16 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  {... standard proselytizing ...}

A man comes on here and tells all and sundry he's had it with liverwurst sandwiches to the point where the very thought of a liverwurst sandwich infuriates him, and gives cases where liverwurst sandwiches real and offered have caused him genuine anguish that has only gotten worse with every instance of liverwurst sandwiches being pushed on him from every direction, and you walk in here and say "I see your trouble, bro, you need to have a liverwurst sandwich". A mind so blind as to say something like that is stupefying to watch, it's like watching a man with perfectly good arms and hands and fingers using only his feet with boots on to do everything with. Incredible.

You may not like what I am saying and that is fine.

But sometimes in life, the truth runs contrary to what we like or desire.

When we realize this, we have a choice which is the beautiful part of this whole thing.

You can choose to follow The Truth and be transformed by it, thus transforming your desires.

Or you can choose to follow your desires at the expense of truth.

The choice is yours.
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16-06-2014, 06:43 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 06:40 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 06:37 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You may not like what I am saying and that is fine.

But sometimes in life, the truth runs contrary to what we like or desire.

When we realize this, we have a choice which is the beautiful part of this whole thing.

You can choose to follow The Truth and be transformed by it, thus transforming your desires.

Or you can choose to follow your desires at the expense of truth.

The choice is yours.

Yours as well. Yet you choose not to.

Choose not to what?
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16-06-2014, 06:46 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 06:43 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 06:40 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  Yours as well. Yet you choose not to.

Choose not to what?

Did you forget what you wrote already? Read man, read.
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16-06-2014, 06:47 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 06:46 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 06:43 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Choose not to what?

Did you forget what you wrote already? Read man, read.

Your questions are vague. Yes I remember what I wrote.
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16-06-2014, 06:50 PM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2014 06:53 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 06:37 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You may not like what I am saying and that is fine.

But sometimes in life, the truth runs contrary to what we like or desire.

When we realize this, we have a choice which is the beautiful part of this whole thing.

You can choose to follow The Truth and be transformed by it, thus transforming your desires.

Or you can choose to follow your desires at the expense of truth.

The choice is yours.

I'm gonna use that against Christians. ... Wait,think I already did. Your irrational and insatiable desire for a postmortem preservation of identity is reminscent of Luke 6:41. Tongue

#sigh
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16-06-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 06:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 06:37 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You may not like what I am saying and that is fine.

But sometimes in life, the truth runs contrary to what we like or desire.

When we realize this, we have a choice which is the beautiful part of this whole thing.

You can choose to follow The Truth and be transformed by it, thus transforming your desires.

Or you can choose to follow your desires at the expense of truth.

The choice is yours.

I'm gonna use that against Christians. ... Wait,think I already did. Tongue

You can do nothing against the truth, only for the truth.
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16-06-2014, 06:53 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 08:45 AM)Dom Wrote:  There is no such thing as evil......

Good and evil is a bunch of crap.


Anyone else here agree with this?
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16-06-2014, 07:23 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker JAQing off, again.
(16-06-2014 06:53 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 08:45 AM)Dom Wrote:  There is no such thing as evil......

Good and evil is a bunch of crap.


Anyone else here agree with this?

Jesus only chose to heal the sick he happened to walk past in a few places in a small region when he had the power to heal the whole world. Condemed countless millions to hell for his inept evidence of divinity. God drowned every baby on the planet So if evil is real we know who created it.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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