Jeremy Walker the nihilist
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15-05-2014, 02:37 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 02:23 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Well....you see...thats not what I asked.

What i asked was if God existed, would you expect God to condemn rape?

Would you expect God to?
I am a god in comparison to ants.

I don't make moral judgements on ants, if ants are a threat to me i.e. they are crawling through my pantry, then I smite them. Otherwise I ignore them. I don't keep tabs on their behaviours towards each other and I don't judge each individual ant, I don't reward them with heaven (a sugar cube) and I don't punish them with eternal torture. I don't demand that they believe in me, I don't demand they have faith or worship me. I live my life, they live theirs.
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15-05-2014, 02:42 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 02:37 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 02:23 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Well....you see...thats not what I asked.

What i asked was if God existed, would you expect God to condemn rape?

Would you expect God to?
I am a god in comparison to ants.

I don't make moral judgements on ants, if ants are a threat to me i.e. they are crawling through my pantry, then I smite them. Otherwise I ignore them. I don't keep tabs on their behaviours towards each other and I don't judge each individual ant, I don't reward them with heaven (a sugar cube) and I don't punish them with eternal torture. I don't demand that they believe in me, I don't demand they have faith or worship me. I live my life, they live theirs.

Don't homo ants get on your tits though? I'd do some smiting was I you.

I'm a more insecure God than you anyway. I smite like fuck whenever anything hairy with too many legs comes anywhere near me. I *fear* my worshippers.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-05-2014, 02:43 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 02:29 PM)Charis Wrote:  It would seem to me that people have this idea of what "we would expect of a god" if such were to exist. But think of it.... A god would be, I assume, autonomous. Independent of OUR ideas, morals, goals, plans, etc. A personality and being of their own, whose identity and desires are not formed according to the expectations and whims of others, let alone of lesser beings.

If the essence of a god can be challenged or questioned based upon the expected or desired morals of those who ponder this god, is this god NOT now a figment of our individual or collective imaginations?

You are thinking far too hard about this. If God exists and He possesses all of the attributes ascribed to Him by philosophers in the academy i.e. omnibenevolence, omnipresence, omnipotence etc. etc who is the grounds and source of our existence as well as our capacity for moral judgments, then it stands to reason that we would expect Him to condemn rape.

It wouldnt make sense to say that God would encourage it because everyone who is not ill, recognizes that rape is a great evil. Now if we the lesser see rape as a great evil, then God who is The Highest Good would necesarily have to see rape at least as evil as we see it. This is not controversial at all. In fact, God in the OT condemns rape as a capital crime right along with murder.

So we would expect if God existed that He would condemn rape. But if He did then far from it being some arbitrary command that He just makes up on a whim, it seems to me that He would condemn it because He knows rape is a great evil which is detrimental to us. Nor if God existed would we expect for Him to just do something arbitrarily. A being with omniscience does nothing arbitrarily for He knows all possible states of affairs and the best possible way to achieve the ends He wants.
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15-05-2014, 02:43 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 02:09 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 02:04 PM)Charis Wrote:  It's interesting that you assume that I have not done this. I have.

And doing this repeatedly contributes to my atheism.

But there's still this issue.... me READING THE CLAIM yet AGAIN will not change that fact that it is still THE CLAIM! Laugh out loadWeeping

If after reading the Bible, you feel compelled to be an atheist, then fine.

I do not understand why you would still ask for evidence.

That strikes me as odd.

Facepalm Do you have cognitive issues in that 'thinking'-sponge in your skull?
Maybe you started drinking in your teens and retarded the development of the prefrontal cortex perhaps?

People ask for evidence from you because, (now stick with me here) you make the claim of your deity's existence as a fact.
And as I have already explained to you, those making the positive assertion are those required to carry the Onus Probandi.

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15-05-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
What do you mean "would I expect?"

IF a god existed, my expectations are irrelevant to whatever that god was, did, said, etc. THAT is what I currently think. And THAT position leads me to not even hazard to hold any actual expectations of a god, because doing so would be futile and may lead to disillusionment if such a being were to exist. In short, it would be pointless, foolish and potentially harmful to harbor expectations of someone without having any basis for doing so.

I will stick to this approach: for hypothetical mystery god, FIND OUT what this being is all about. Find out the facts. Conclusions and expectations will naturally follow. Some may be subsequently proven accurate, some may be proven false as more information comes out.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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15-05-2014, 02:48 PM
Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 02:43 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 02:29 PM)Charis Wrote:  It would seem to me that people have this idea of what "we would expect of a god" if such were to exist. But think of it.... A god would be, I assume, autonomous. Independent of OUR ideas, morals, goals, plans, etc. A personality and being of their own, whose identity and desires are not formed according to the expectations and whims of others, let alone of lesser beings.

If the essence of a god can be challenged or questioned based upon the expected or desired morals of those who ponder this god, is this god NOT now a figment of our individual or collective imaginations?

You are thinking far too hard about this. If God exists and He possesses all of the attributes ascribed to Him by philosophers in the academy i.e. omnibenevolence, omnipresence, omnipotence etc. etc who is the grounds and source of our existence as well as our capacity for moral judgments, then it stands to reason that we would expect Him to condemn rape.

It wouldnt make sense to say that God would encourage it because everyone who is not ill, recognizes that rape is a great evil. Now if we the lesser see rape as a great evil, then God who is The Highest Good would necesarily have to see rape at least as evil as we see it. This is not controversial at all. In fact, God in the OT condemns rape as a capital crime right along with murder.

So we would expect if God existed that He would condemn rape. But if He did then far from it being some arbitrary command that He just makes up on a whim, it seems to me that He would condemn it because He knows rape is a great evil which is detrimental to us. Nor if God existed would we expect for Him to just do something arbitrarily. A being with omniscience does nothing arbitrarily for He knows all possible states of affairs and the best possible way to achieve the ends He wants.

Oh, so The Bible doesn't matter as source material: It's what philosophy describes God as. Therefore, this would be a good description of God:

(15-05-2014 01:07 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  So would you agree your God is the The One who Calculated the Heavens, the Stars and the Earth, Reckoner of Time and Seasons, the one who Measured out the Heavens and Planned the Earth, He who Balances Equilibrium and Master of the Balance?

Plus whatever other characteristics you would like God to have, even if it does not match up with, or even contradicts the bible.

β€œIt is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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15-05-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 12:32 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I question that.

Oh really?

Suddenly you're applying a bit of skepticism and critical thinking to things related to god?

Why?
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15-05-2014, 02:51 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 02:43 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  It wouldnt make sense to say that God would encourage it because everyone who is not ill, recognizes that rape is a great evil. Now if we the lesser see rape as a great evil, then God who is The Highest Good would necesarily have to see rape at least as evil as we see it.
Hmm, so we recognize the wrongness of rape first independent of god so therefore god should be able to recognize it too. Sounds logical. One problem though. You believe your god is the source of morality. Now you are all but directly declaring it's independent of your god. Consider

(15-05-2014 02:43 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  This is not controversial at all. In fact, God in the OT condemns rape as a capital crime right along with murder.
Where, and was that right after the page where he condoned it? Dodgy

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15-05-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 02:43 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 02:29 PM)Charis Wrote:  It would seem to me that people have this idea of what "we would expect of a god" if such were to exist. But think of it.... A god would be, I assume, autonomous. Independent of OUR ideas, morals, goals, plans, etc. A personality and being of their own, whose identity and desires are not formed according to the expectations and whims of others, let alone of lesser beings.

If the essence of a god can be challenged or questioned based upon the expected or desired morals of those who ponder this god, is this god NOT now a figment of our individual or collective imaginations?

You are thinking far too hard about this. If God exists and He possesses all of the attributes ascribed to Him by philosophers in the academy i.e. omnibenevolence, omnipresence, omnipotence etc. etc who is the grounds and source of our existence as well as our capacity for moral judgments, then it stands to reason that we would expect Him to condemn rape.

It wouldnt make sense to say that God would encourage it because everyone who is not ill, recognizes that rape is a great evil. Now if we the lesser see rape as a great evil, then God who is The Highest Good would necesarily have to see rape at least as evil as we see it. This is not controversial at all. In fact, God in the OT condemns rape as a capital crime right along with murder.

So we would expect if God existed that He would condemn rape. But if He did then far from it being some arbitrary command that He just makes up on a whim, it seems to me that He would condemn it because He knows rape is a great evil which is detrimental to us. Nor if God existed would we expect for Him to just do something arbitrarily. A being with omniscience does nothing arbitrarily for He knows all possible states of affairs and the best possible way to achieve the ends He wants.
if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if

And let's not AGAIN get started on rape in the OT.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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15-05-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 02:52 PM)Charis Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 02:43 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You are thinking far too hard about this. If God exists and He possesses all of the attributes ascribed to Him by philosophers in the academy i.e. omnibenevolence, omnipresence, omnipotence etc. etc who is the grounds and source of our existence as well as our capacity for moral judgments, then it stands to reason that we would expect Him to condemn rape.

It wouldnt make sense to say that God would encourage it because everyone who is not ill, recognizes that rape is a great evil. Now if we the lesser see rape as a great evil, then God who is The Highest Good would necesarily have to see rape at least as evil as we see it. This is not controversial at all. In fact, God in the OT condemns rape as a capital crime right along with murder.

So we would expect if God existed that He would condemn rape. But if He did then far from it being some arbitrary command that He just makes up on a whim, it seems to me that He would condemn it because He knows rape is a great evil which is detrimental to us. Nor if God existed would we expect for Him to just do something arbitrarily. A being with omniscience does nothing arbitrarily for He knows all possible states of affairs and the best possible way to achieve the ends He wants.
if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if

And let's not AGAIN get started on rape in the OT.
My eyes! My eyes! Tongue

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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