Jeremy Walker the nihilist
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16-05-2014, 11:09 AM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(16-05-2014 10:02 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:54 AM)Bible Belt Brawler Wrote:  To be honest, your god, as portrayed in the Bible, isn't a COMPLETE monster. For example, He allowed the poor to gleam the wheat from the landowner's fields every so often. If He was angry at somebody, he even shows mercy on a few occasions. However, this does not lighten the fact that he kills over 1,000,000 people, including babies who did nothing wrong, nor does it justify the sacking and razing of the tribes surrounding Israel.

What is contained in the text was likely moral genius at the time it was penned, but its values have not aged well.

Then there are the basic technical errors that a modern human wouldn't make, much less an omniscient spirit being. These errors reflect poorly upon His intellect and intentions.
That is my sincere assessment.

I will be talking only with you in this thread from here on out.

Start with giving me an exhaustive list of these techincal errors God made.

Shall we begin with Genesis?

Just because YOU believe in fairies doesn't mean anybody else should.
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16-05-2014, 11:13 AM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  It seems that most here are more willing to be sarcastic and cynical than serious and sincere.
Are you sure that's not a mirror you're looking at? Consider

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  All of a sudden the word "God" seems to be non-sensical to you guys. Up to now you've been using it on a regular basis and talking about how He is this horrible person.
If you really believe it's "all of a sudden", then you haven't been paying attention AT ALL.

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Now all of a sudden you do not know what I mean when I use the term.
How could we possibly know what you mean when EVERY COUNTLESS TIME you are asked to define it, you either don't, or you give a completely vague, meaningless, evasive definition (like "the God of western philosophy" Rolleyes ). And I see you have not answered the question here YET AGAIN...

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not think all of you are as ignorant as you would have me believe you are.
We're looking to discuss what you're discussing and to be sure that we are doing so, that's all. But you already knew that...

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I just think you do not want to answer the question.
No, you have that backwards and you know that too.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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16-05-2014, 11:16 AM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(16-05-2014 10:02 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:54 AM)Bible Belt Brawler Wrote:  To be honest, your god, as portrayed in the Bible, isn't a COMPLETE monster. For example, He allowed the poor to gleam the wheat from the landowner's fields every so often. If He was angry at somebody, he even shows mercy on a few occasions. However, this does not lighten the fact that he kills over 1,000,000 people, including babies who did nothing wrong, nor does it justify the sacking and razing of the tribes surrounding Israel.

What is contained in the text was likely moral genius at the time it was penned, but its values have not aged well.

Then there are the basic technical errors that a modern human wouldn't make, much less an omniscient spirit being. These errors reflect poorly upon His intellect and intentions.
That is my sincere assessment.

I will be talking only with you in this thread from here on out.

Start with giving me an exhaustive list of these techincal errors God made.
Translation: When backed into a corner, tuck tail and run. Laughat

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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16-05-2014, 11:21 AM
Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  It seems that most here are more willing to be sarcastic and cynical than serious and sincere.

What would make you think regurgitating the same taking points over and over, or changing topic whenever your talking points are shown nonsensical would bring anything but sarcasm?

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  All of a sudden the word "God" seems to be non-sensical to you guys.

Probably because you stated you believe in a God contradictory to the bible. So if we're going to discuss your concept of God, the one you claim to have met, we're going to need you to clarify what you're talking about, because you have advanced a claim, and the onus is on you to back it up.

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Up to now you've been using it on a regular basis and talking about how He is this horrible person.

Yes, the biblical God is terrible. Hey, remember all that time you spent defending the torture, genocide, rape, infanticide, and murder ordained by God in the bible, and are now pretending you no longer believe God is described accurately in the bible because *puff of smoke* Philosophy?

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Now all of a sudden you do not know what I mean when I use the term.

You don't seem to know what you mean when you use the term, because the definition changes depending what you want to argue at a given moment.

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not think all of you are as ignorant as you would have me believe you are.

[Image: muhe8aty.jpg]

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I just think you do not want to answer the question.

So now we have to define the terms you're using for you? Do you not know what you actually believe?

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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16-05-2014, 11:24 AM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(16-05-2014 11:07 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 06:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I am talking about the God discussed in western philosophy.

I'd probably go with something like "a capricious monster who is bad at communication and has massive self esteem problems".

My reasoning:

Capricious: He sometimes lets slights go unpunished for thousands of years, and other times murders everyone involved. His murder sprees frequently kill bystanders, and sometimes even spare some of the guilty party at the same time, seemingly for no reason. His rules and enforcement are arbitrary, and you have no reason to believe he will behave a particular way when presented with the same situation twice.

Monster: See the above-mentioned killings. Also Tay Sachs. We're told that exists because of "mysterious ways", but at the end of the day, he allows or causes children to die in horrifying ways for unstated reasons.

Poor at communication: See the above-mentioned mysterious ways. No one knows what they are. Also, he waits for thousands of years before giving various decrees, which were supposedly super important all along. In addition, his prophesies are often vague to the point of being useless.

Massive self esteem problems: The most common excuse I hear for free will is that we need to be free to make choices so that God can know we love him. If we weren't free to rape each other, God wouldn't know if we loved him unless we opted not to rape each other, or something. Ergo, these atrocities are allowed so that God can know who his real friends are. Also, he supposedly answers prayers for help. Given that he caused or allowed the problem to happen in the first place, if he only intervenes when asked, he is causing or allowing problems for the sole purpose to fix them. I had a roommate like that in college once, and everyone hated him.


I'm sure I could find some positive attributes to attach as well, but there's not much point. When someone does a bunch of good and bad things completely irrespective of each other, they tend to be remembered for the bad stuff. We don't typically have the good cancel out the bad if the bad was unnecessary. For example: if I build ten orphanages and blew one up, I'd be known as Rob the Child Killer and not Rob the Orphanage Builder.

Robby that was goddamn brilliant! Especially the line "I had a roommate like that in college once, and everyone hated him. " Bowing

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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16-05-2014, 11:39 AM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(16-05-2014 11:24 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Robby that was goddamn brilliant! Especially the line "I had a roommate like that in college once, and everyone hated him. " Bowing

Thanks. It's true, too. He had a crush on a female friend, and he'd hide her cell phone, so when she had to leave, she'd have to waste time looking for it. He'd then eventually "find it" and save the day. It got super annoying.

No one likes it when people create problems just to solve them. This problem doesn't get better when talking about omniscient entities who supposedly care.
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16-05-2014, 11:44 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2014 01:10 PM by Leo.)
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(15-05-2014 11:23 AM)Leo Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 11:15 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I read it frequently. Have read it several times all the way through.

You are reading the bible in English ?

(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  It seems that most here are more willing to be sarcastic and cynical than serious and sincere.

All of a sudden the word "God" seems to be non-sensical to you guys. Up to now you've been using it on a regular basis and talking about how He is this horrible person.

Now all of a sudden you do not know what I mean when I use the term.

I do not think all of you are as ignorant as you would have me believe you are.

I just think you do not want to answer the question.

You ever read the bible in english? You are deserving the title of the most ignorant douche of the universe. Congratulations!Thumbsup
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16-05-2014, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2014 01:46 PM by Charis.)
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(16-05-2014 09:37 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  It seems that most here are more willing to be sarcastic and cynical than serious and sincere.
We're seriously sarcastic and sincerely cynical. Get it right. Tongue


Quote:All of a sudden the word "God" seems to be non-sensical to you guys. Up to now you've been using it on a regular basis and talking about how He is this horrible person.

Now all of a sudden you do not know what I mean when I use the term.

Well.... yes and no. We do know what you're talking about. And it's still non-sensical.
You're getting prematurely specific on us. You're trying to talk specifically of the god of the bible or of "Western Philosophy," take your pick. Meanwhile, you haven't even demonstrated the existence OF A GOD.

AT ALL!

Let alone a specific one.


This would be like me coming to PaleolithicFreethinker and talking about the amazing brown-and-white spotted Wargarble. PFT would be justified in asking me to demonstrate that a Wargarble even exists, let alone a specific type. But I totally dodge the question of the existence of Wargarbles and continue challenging him and questioning him on this brown-and-white spotted one that I don't even have a specimen of or any evidence to bring him. Um... forget the specific types.... how do we know Wargarbles exist????

You're getting all specific on us before there's any basis for doing so. We're asking about the very existence of an entire Order or Phylum or perhaps a whole new Kingdom (a supernatural being), and you're skipping right on down to Species (YOUR supernatural being) and debating that. That's ignorant. Stop it.


Quote:I do not think all of you are as ignorant as you would have me believe you are.
Feeling's mutual.


Quote:I just think you do not want to answer the question.
HA! Now you know how WE feel! But you still haven't answered the question about the existence of ANY god, so how can we answer one about a SPECIFIC god?


What would I expect of Wargarbles if they existed? Well, let me go get high, and I'm sure I could come up with some pretty awesome things.
My conjectures on "a god IF one existed" would be about as relevant.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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16-05-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(16-05-2014 05:12 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 04:58 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Why assume God would be male?

What would you expect God to be like if God existed?
Such a tricky question. Tricky because there is no coherent definition of what a god is.

Let's set a definition and run with that.
Let's make god all knowing, all powerful.

If this god exists, and knows everything that will happen. I would imagine this god would be bored senseless. It would be like watching the same tv programme over and over and over and over.
You already know what is going to happen, so there are no surprises and nothing to learn, thus no funny moments, no interesting moments. This would drag on for 14 billion years. 14 billion year of pure boredom. Shit happens exactly how you know shit will happen, it happens because it must, and it happens exactly the way you know it will.
If this god existed I would expect it to find away to not exist.

If this god existed and was all powerful then in less than a picosecond of existence I would expect it to blink itself out of existence.
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16-05-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: Jeremy Walker the nihilist
(16-05-2014 11:09 AM)Bible Belt Brawler Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 10:02 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I will be talking only with you in this thread from here on out.

Start with giving me an exhaustive list of these techincal errors God made.

Shall we begin with Genesis?

Let us begin.
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