Jesus?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-04-2011, 08:19 PM
RE: Jesus?
Hey, erbody.

Quote:There were a lot of different Jesuses in that time...

Lol. Jeezi Big Grin

My understanding of the character is not complete.

Whatever links there may be to fire and brimstone I shall leave to another debate, but my understanding is that Jesus brought a profound message of peace. I'm a fan of that sort of thing. I think that there's confused historical records on whether or not he was a person or an idea. I like to think he was an actual non-son-of-God dude who tried to make the world a better place. I am told that his story corresponds to Joseph Campbell's "Hero With a Thousand Faces" archetype, so that seems to point to his story being a composite or an outright fiction (but doesn't mean there was no man from Nazareth).

My only real beef with the character is that I do not believe in man as a flawed creature in need of salvation. In the Quinnian sense, I am an anti-Christ, that is, not a person of ultimate evil, but a person who does not believe in the need for salvation and that our, shall I politely say, questionable choices are merely the result of cultural evolution (the problems we face are cultural rather than inherent to a creature that is a born sinner). Similarly I don't subscribe to the Enlightenment notion of man as a perfectible being.

All in all, I think Jesus is a good egg. He has faults, sure, and some of his followers are insane in the membrane, but I've always considered the character to be a principled man of peace and one of the most important philosophers in recorded history (whether that means he was an important philosopher or that the Philosophy of Jesus was an important philosophy).

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2011, 12:22 AM
RE: Jesus?
(07-04-2011 12:57 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  
(07-04-2011 12:11 AM)No J. Wrote:  Jesus of the bible is a fictional character. I do not have any belief that he is based on any real person. If he is based on a real person, it would be very loosely.

As I said, I'm not interested in the arguments of his existence, merely what your opinions of the character are. Whether or not you see him as fictional.

Superman, Batman, Sherlock Holmes, the Hardy boys and Daffy Duck are fictional characters. They may be entertaining but I don't have any respect, admiration, awe or reverance for any of them. Nor do I look to any of them as a role model.

I respect real people who have moral character and don't need to frightened into staying moral by some fictional character.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2011, 12:38 AM
RE: Jesus?
(07-04-2011 07:26 PM)Norseman Wrote:  I think the teachings of Jesus who are worth following are self evident, and if you should try to teach them to someone you should find some other way than referring them to Jesus, since you could give them the impression that everything he says is worth following. You can't teach anyone about morality by referring to an authority figure, because morality is not absolute, and to give someone that impression is in itself immoral.

I find it interesting that you say morallity isn't absolute, yet you also say giving someone that impression is immoral (absolutely).
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2011, 09:58 AM
RE: Jesus?
Well...

I think he's drawn out as an overall nice guy in a context of an "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" world. I can imagine he still inspires people. There's nothing wrong with his messages of compassion and love.

I think Jesus was the first humanist choosing people over theological rules and nonsense.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2011, 10:58 AM
RE: Jesus?
(08-04-2011 09:58 AM)The_observer Wrote:  Well...

I think he's drawn out as an overall nice guy in a context of an "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" world. I can imagine he still inspires people. There's nothing wrong with his messages of compassion and love.

I think Jesus was the first humanist choosing people over theological rules and nonsense.

Interesting. I find that strage since most of His reasoning came from those very laws.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2011, 11:09 AM
RE: Jesus?
It's been said repeatedly on this thread by many, but the "Jesus" we know from the bible is an amalgamation of rewrites and never existed. That's not to say that he is not based on a real character.

Hard to not be redundant here and just echo everything that has already been said, but I think the character of Jesus, both his factual and fictional character is a mixed bag. One thing I am quite certain of, he was no son of god...

"Like" my Facebook page
Brain Droppings Blog
[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT16Rq3dAcHhqiAsPC5xUC...oR0pEpxQZw]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2011, 11:25 AM
RE: Jesus?
(08-04-2011 12:38 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  
(07-04-2011 07:26 PM)Norseman Wrote:  I think the teachings of Jesus who are worth following are self evident, and if you should try to teach them to someone you should find some other way than referring them to Jesus, since you could give them the impression that everything he says is worth following. You can't teach anyone about morality by referring to an authority figure, because morality is not absolute, and to give someone that impression is in itself immoral.

I find it interesting that you say morallity isn't absolute, yet you also say giving someone that impression is immoral (absolutely).

Damn.. you got me.
Oh, no, wait! you didn't! Because I'm changing it to "might in some cases be considered to be, itself, immoral". Checkmate! Tongue

I want to rip off your superstitions and make passionate sense to you
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2011, 11:42 AM
RE: Jesus?
(08-04-2011 10:58 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  
(08-04-2011 09:58 AM)The_observer Wrote:  Well...

I think he's drawn out as an overall nice guy in a context of an "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" world. I can imagine he still inspires people. There's nothing wrong with his messages of compassion and love.

I think Jesus was the first humanist choosing people over theological rules and nonsense.

Interesting. I find that strange since most of His reasoning came from those very laws.

Jewish laws of that time?
Stoning unfaithful woman? (let he who is without sin cast the first stone)
Honoring the sabbath? (he played with the children on sabbath)
Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth (turning the other cheek)
Don't forget Jesus was raised a Jew. The Christian dogma's where yet to be established in those days.

It is entirely possible that I'm cherry-picking here. So please be so kind to inform me if I do. Refer to me with the correct verses so I can look them up in my own language.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2011, 11:52 AM
RE: Jesus?
It is entirely possible that I'm cherry-picking here. So please be so kind to inform me if I do. Refer to me with the correct verses so I can look them up in my own language.

I do hope you'll eventually answer my question BlackEyedGhost...

"Like" my Facebook page
Brain Droppings Blog
[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT16Rq3dAcHhqiAsPC5xUC...oR0pEpxQZw]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2011, 12:26 PM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2011 12:49 PM by BlackEyedGhost.)
RE: Jesus?
(08-04-2011 11:25 AM)Norseman Wrote:  Damn.. you got me.
Oh, no, wait! you didn't! Because I'm changing it to "might in some cases be considered to be, itself, immoral". Checkmate! Tongue

Lol, well you took your finger off the piece, but I'll allow it. ;P Logically, however, if there's no absolute morality, then the only thing there is is rules and those who make them. Nothing is right, nothing is wrong.
@the_observer
I do appologise if I missed answering something you said. One Christian and a bunch of Atheists makes it difficult to keep up. Anyways, the Old Testament laws convict everyone of sin (except Jesus). Jesus looked past what the law said to what God was saying through it. Under the law, we all get the death sentence. Jesus didn't break any of the laws and was therefore not under the death sentence. We all were though, so he offered himself in our place. In doing so he freed everyone from the punishment they deserved. So back to stoning the woman, His sacrifice was payment for her sin and thus upheld the law. He honored the sabbath by doing what was right on the sabbath as well as every other day. The jews had added laws upon laws that God didn't establish to the original laws. Jesus upheld God's law. Not the other Jewish laws. People misunderstand an eye for an eye. There's a story in the OT where a man says that if God can avenge 7 fold, then he can avenge 77 fold. That's when God came in with "a
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: