Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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23-09-2015, 05:20 AM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2015 02:23 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-09-2015 10:01 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 04:08 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  You haven't read your own babble...

Acts 17King James Version (KJV)

17 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

Jews discussed Paul.

Yes, but not as an apostate or a Roman who was a conspirator to trick them! Be consistent.

Five days after his so called arrest in Jerusalem, the High Priest Ananias and his lawyer Tertullus allegedly went to Caesaria and accused Paul of being an insurrectionist:

“And after five days Ananias the high priest descended with the elders, and with a certain orator named Tertullus, who informed the governor against Paul. And when he was called forth, Tertullus began to accuse him, saying, seeing that by thee we enjoy great quietness, and that very worthy deeds are done unto this nation by thy providence, we accept it always, and in all places, most noble Felix, with all thankfulness. Notwithstanding, that I be not further tedious unto thee, I pray thee that thou wouldest hear us of thy clemency a few words. For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands, commanding his accusers to come unto thee: by examining of whom thyself mayest take knowledge of all these things, whereof we accuse him. And the Jews also assented, saying that these things were so. (Acts 24:1-9, KJV.)

Paul was a Roman and an apostate and a conspirator.

Seems I know more about your babble than you.
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24-09-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(23-09-2015 05:20 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 10:01 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Yes, but not as an apostate or a Roman who was a conspirator to trick them! Be consistent.

Five days after his so called arrest in Jerusalem, the High Priest Ananias and his lawyer Tertullus allegedly went to Caesaria and accused Paul of being an insurrectionist:

“And after five days Ananias the high priest descended with the elders, and with a certain orator named Tertullus, who informed the governor against Paul. And when he was called forth, Tertullus began to accuse him, saying, seeing that by thee we enjoy great quietness, and that very worthy deeds are done unto this nation by thy providence, we accept it always, and in all places, most noble Felix, with all thankfulness. Notwithstanding, that I be not further tedious unto thee, I pray thee that thou wouldest hear us of thy clemency a few words. For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands, commanding his accusers to come unto thee: by examining of whom thyself mayest take knowledge of all these things, whereof we accuse him. And the Jews also assented, saying that these things were so. (Acts 24:1-9, KJV.)

Paul was a Roman and an apostate and a conspirator.

Seems I know more about your babble than you.

Perhaps you do. Therefore, you might explain to me how it is in this passage you've chosen, where Paul, a "ringleader of the sect" of Nazarenes, a Jewish sect which held councils and meetings in the same book of Acts to get Jews to even fellowship with Gentiles, was a Roman and not a Jew. And how it is that the leaders who helped crucify the Messiah calling Paul an apostate makes him one. The man returned to Jerusalem after years to take Jewish vows, shave his head, and make obeisance at the Temple!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-09-2015, 02:30 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2015 02:59 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-09-2015 01:28 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(23-09-2015 05:20 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Five days after his so called arrest in Jerusalem, the High Priest Ananias and his lawyer Tertullus allegedly went to Caesaria and accused Paul of being an insurrectionist:

“And after five days Ananias the high priest descended with the elders, and with a certain orator named Tertullus, who informed the governor against Paul. And when he was called forth, Tertullus began to accuse him, saying, seeing that by thee we enjoy great quietness, and that very worthy deeds are done unto this nation by thy providence, we accept it always, and in all places, most noble Felix, with all thankfulness. Notwithstanding, that I be not further tedious unto thee, I pray thee that thou wouldest hear us of thy clemency a few words. For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands, commanding his accusers to come unto thee: by examining of whom thyself mayest take knowledge of all these things, whereof we accuse him. And the Jews also assented, saying that these things were so. (Acts 24:1-9, KJV.)

Paul was a Roman and an apostate and a conspirator.

Seems I know more about your babble than you.

Perhaps you do. Therefore, you might explain to me how it is in this passage you've chosen, where Paul, a "ringleader of the sect" of Nazarenes, a Jewish sect which held councils and meetings in the same book of Acts to get Jews to even fellowship with Gentiles, was a Roman and not a Jew. And how it is that the leaders who helped crucify the Messiah calling Paul an apostate makes him one. The man returned to Jerusalem after years to take Jewish vows, shave his head, and make obeisance at the Temple!

Your ignorance about this astounds me. What is more, it has already been explained to you, and you obviously didn't read the explanation. I'll try again.

Paul was a Jew (in the cultural sense) and a Roman. Yes...you could be both. Look it up.

Paul was regarded by his fellow Jews (including James, the brother of Jesus) as an apostate to the Jewish religion. Read your babble. Ask any Jew today. He sometimes paid lip service to still being a Jewish rabbi, but only when it suited him.
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24-09-2015, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2015 02:54 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Maybe, Q, your memory needs a little refreshing...

Paul the Salesman

It can be argued that Paul was a salesman with an ambitious agenda. Paul hoped to sell his interpretation of Judaism to the Roman world. He had a plan to undermine those dangerous messianic Nazarene beliefs that roused rebellion against Roman rule.

Paul wrote to various groups scattered throughout the Empire, and pleaded they believe only his theology. Judging by the content of his letters, Paul was so obsessed with snaring converts that little else in his life mattered. In Romans 15:16, he wrote that Gentiles were an offering he would bring to God.

“...that I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.”

Most of the people Paul wrote to were Gentiles (pagans) associated with Jewish synagogues, (“God-fearing Gentiles”) although he wrote to some Jews in the Diaspora too. From Paul’s perspective, his patrons were in desperate need of direction and an authoritative, charismatic leader to look up to. He considered himself just the man. Paul thought he knew how to win the hearts, minds, and souls of people, as he probably imagined himself as one of the few God fearers (i.e. Jews) who understood Gentile cultures.

“And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.” (1 Corinthians 9:20-23, KJV)

Paul’s theology probably had a long and carefully thought out gestation. Paul knew that to appeal to his customers he needed a product very different to traditional Judaism. Traditional Judaism required obedience to cumbersome dictates, and was too anti-Roman. The Jews believed men had to be circumcised, a painful and embarrass- ing procedure, not easy to sell to an adult man. The Jews worshipped Yahweh, who is portrayed in Jewish Scripture as a thunderous and violent pro-Jewish anti-Gentile God, and Jews would bow to no one but Him. The Jews had to eat kosher food, could marry only Jewish women, and were not allowed to work on the Sabbath. Jews regarded Jewish heritage and history as superior to others, and all Jews were expected to take part in the fasts and feasts celebrating the ancient epic of Israel. Many Jews thought they were one day going to be the masters of the world, and they had chips on their shoulders that right now it was Rome, not they, who were in charge. Jewish Messianic dreams were a threat to Roman rule. Paul knew that the vast majority of Gentiles, including those in the Roman government, found all this inconvenient, irksome, subversive and out of touch with reality, so he labeled these Jewish rules and beliefs as a type of “slavery.” Paul had to jettison the old Jewish rules, so he did, by reinventing Judaism so that it was more to the Gentile world’s liking.

According to Paul, there was now no need for circumcision or to stop work on the Sabbath. The dietary kosher rules were out; bacon was on the breakfast menu, with shellfish salad for lunch. Paul made the extraordinary claim that to obey the Roman government was to obey God. Paul downplayed the importance of the Jewish temple, and replaced the Jews’ hope for a political Messiah of their own with Christ, the spiritual savior of all mankind. The “kingdom of God,” according to Paul, became a place in heaven, not in Israel. Paul declared Yahweh was such a decent deity he had sent his own precious son, the Christ, to earth. Paul alleged Gentiles were descendants of Abraham too, and that the centuries-old Jewish Law was a “curse,” and a type of “slavery.” All that was now required was faith in Paul’s claims about Christ. Voilà! The Christ myth and Christian theology were born.

It can be argued that Paul was one of history’s first examples of an ambitious cult leader who, when the rules of the established religion were problematic or no longer convenient, simply invented new ones to suit himself.

Paul advocated the replacement of what he called the “old covenant” of the Jews with his entirely fabricated “new covenant.” It is evident that Paul was trying to reinvent Judaism and dampen down Jewish messianic dreams, and that he was bending over backwards to infiltrate the old religion with Gentiles and pro-Roman ideas. Paul had little idea that he was creating an almost entirely new faith, yet that is precisely what his writings helped to do many years later.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEsWX0YDB2Y
http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/10/12/its-not-the-end-of-the- world-or-is-it-pauls-apocalyptic-worldview-nt-26/ )
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25-09-2015, 08:49 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-09-2015 02:30 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 01:28 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Perhaps you do. Therefore, you might explain to me how it is in this passage you've chosen, where Paul, a "ringleader of the sect" of Nazarenes, a Jewish sect which held councils and meetings in the same book of Acts to get Jews to even fellowship with Gentiles, was a Roman and not a Jew. And how it is that the leaders who helped crucify the Messiah calling Paul an apostate makes him one. The man returned to Jerusalem after years to take Jewish vows, shave his head, and make obeisance at the Temple!

Your ignorance about this astounds me. What is more, it has already been explained to you, and you obviously didn't read the explanation. I'll try again.

Paul was a Jew (in the cultural sense) and a Roman. Yes...you could be both. Look it up.

Paul was regarded by his fellow Jews (including James, the brother of Jesus) as an apostate to the Jewish religion. Read your babble. Ask any Jew today. He sometimes paid lip service to still being a Jewish rabbi, but only when it suited him.

Of course you could be both. Paul said he had a citizenship. Now, respond as you never have to my assertion as to how Paul was trying to get the Jews to obey Rome by making a few verses as to same while writing entire thousand-word discussions of how the Romans were utterly lost without Jesus Christ and how all other gods in their pantheon didn't exist and how Roman idols were empowered by demons and how excited he was to have seen people in Caesar's own household converted to his sect of Judaism!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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25-09-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-09-2015 02:42 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Maybe, Q, your memory needs a little refreshing...

Paul the Salesman

It can be argued that Paul was a salesman with an ambitious agenda. Paul hoped to sell his interpretation of Judaism to the Roman world. He had a plan to undermine those dangerous messianic Nazarene beliefs that roused rebellion against Roman rule.

Paul wrote to various groups scattered throughout the Empire, and pleaded they believe only his theology. Judging by the content of his letters, Paul was so obsessed with snaring converts that little else in his life mattered. In Romans 15:16, he wrote that Gentiles were an offering he would bring to God.

“...that I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.”

Most of the people Paul wrote to were Gentiles (pagans) associated with Jewish synagogues, (“God-fearing Gentiles”) although he wrote to some Jews in the Diaspora too. From Paul’s perspective, his patrons were in desperate need of direction and an authoritative, charismatic leader to look up to. He considered himself just the man. Paul thought he knew how to win the hearts, minds, and souls of people, as he probably imagined himself as one of the few God fearers (i.e. Jews) who understood Gentile cultures.

“And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.” (1 Corinthians 9:20-23, KJV)

Paul’s theology probably had a long and carefully thought out gestation. Paul knew that to appeal to his customers he needed a product very different to traditional Judaism. Traditional Judaism required obedience to cumbersome dictates, and was too anti-Roman. The Jews believed men had to be circumcised, a painful and embarrass- ing procedure, not easy to sell to an adult man. The Jews worshipped Yahweh, who is portrayed in Jewish Scripture as a thunderous and violent pro-Jewish anti-Gentile God, and Jews would bow to no one but Him. The Jews had to eat kosher food, could marry only Jewish women, and were not allowed to work on the Sabbath. Jews regarded Jewish heritage and history as superior to others, and all Jews were expected to take part in the fasts and feasts celebrating the ancient epic of Israel. Many Jews thought they were one day going to be the masters of the world, and they had chips on their shoulders that right now it was Rome, not they, who were in charge. Jewish Messianic dreams were a threat to Roman rule. Paul knew that the vast majority of Gentiles, including those in the Roman government, found all this inconvenient, irksome, subversive and out of touch with reality, so he labeled these Jewish rules and beliefs as a type of “slavery.” Paul had to jettison the old Jewish rules, so he did, by reinventing Judaism so that it was more to the Gentile world’s liking.

According to Paul, there was now no need for circumcision or to stop work on the Sabbath. The dietary kosher rules were out; bacon was on the breakfast menu, with shellfish salad for lunch. Paul made the extraordinary claim that to obey the Roman government was to obey God. Paul downplayed the importance of the Jewish temple, and replaced the Jews’ hope for a political Messiah of their own with Christ, the spiritual savior of all mankind. The “kingdom of God,” according to Paul, became a place in heaven, not in Israel. Paul declared Yahweh was such a decent deity he had sent his own precious son, the Christ, to earth. Paul alleged Gentiles were descendants of Abraham too, and that the centuries-old Jewish Law was a “curse,” and a type of “slavery.” All that was now required was faith in Paul’s claims about Christ. Voilà! The Christ myth and Christian theology were born.

It can be argued that Paul was one of history’s first examples of an ambitious cult leader who, when the rules of the established religion were problematic or no longer convenient, simply invented new ones to suit himself.

Paul advocated the replacement of what he called the “old covenant” of the Jews with his entirely fabricated “new covenant.” It is evident that Paul was trying to reinvent Judaism and dampen down Jewish messianic dreams, and that he was bending over backwards to infiltrate the old religion with Gentiles and pro-Roman ideas. Paul had little idea that he was creating an almost entirely new faith, yet that is precisely what his writings helped to do many years later.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEsWX0YDB2Y
http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/10/12/its-not-the-end-of-the- world-or-is-it-pauls-apocalyptic-worldview-nt-26/ )

1. Since you are a physician and not an academic classicist, historian or Bible scholar, may I caution you to at least describe your theories as such rather than your latest version of "Eureka! All debates are settled! Here is how Paul created Christianity!" even as you ignore the other 8 NT writers? Thanks.

2. Since you are theorizing that Paul saw himself as just the leader needed in the situation, can you explain why he:

* limited his own income

* did work with his hands including tent making rather than allow local churches to support him financially

* raised much money for the poor

* purposed to visit Jerusalem to visit his fealty to traditional Jerusalem via the shaving of his head and vows

* gave up the comfort of marriage to speak the gospel

* spent most of his life following conversion in Roman prison--chained to walls in freezing or heated rooms, sitting in his own excrement, experiencing trials brought about by false accusations--one heck of a way to "keep the Roman conspiracy quiet" I should think!

* was beaten and mishandled by the Roman authorities until he bothered to mention his citizenship!

Mark, you have "no rules, just right" since you are an atheist on an atheists' forum, but do feel free to actually reply to at least one of my several bullet points rather than simply share more rhetoric, non-biblical and ahistorical assumptions, and venting your anger against the One Holy God.

Thanks!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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25-09-2015, 10:26 AM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2015 10:41 AM by Airportkid.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(25-09-2015 08:55 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ... Since you are a physician and not an academic classicist, historian or Bible scholar, may I caution you ...

Dr. Fulton is a published author in the very subject you declare him incompetent, in ADDITION to being a licensed physician, which fact AUGMENTS his credibility in any scholarly endeavor, not detracts from it.

By the way, Mr. Q., what are your bona fides?
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25-09-2015, 04:10 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2015 04:15 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(25-09-2015 08:49 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 02:30 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Your ignorance about this astounds me. What is more, it has already been explained to you, and you obviously didn't read the explanation. I'll try again.

Paul was a Jew (in the cultural sense) and a Roman. Yes...you could be both. Look it up.

Paul was regarded by his fellow Jews (including James, the brother of Jesus) as an apostate to the Jewish religion. Read your babble. Ask any Jew today. He sometimes paid lip service to still being a Jewish rabbi, but only when it suited him.

Of course you could be both. Paul said he had a citizenship. Now, respond as you never have to my assertion as to how Paul was trying to get the Jews to obey Rome by making a few verses as to same while writing entire thousand-word discussions of how the Romans were utterly lost without Jesus Christ and how all other gods in their pantheon didn't exist and how Roman idols were empowered by demons and how excited he was to have seen people in Caesar's own household converted to his sect of Judaism!

"Now, respond as you never have to my assertion as to how Paul was trying to get the Jews to obey Rome by making a few verses as to same while writing entire thousand-word discussions of how the Romans were utterly lost without Jesus Christ and how all other gods in their pantheon didn't exist and how Roman idols were empowered by demons and how excited he was to have seen people in Caesar's own household converted to his sect of Judaism!"

I have absolutely no idea what the point you're trying to make here is. (I disagree with none of it... except "by making a few verses as to same..." I've presented multiple arguments as to why I think Paul was a Roman agent, yet you claim my entire argument is based "on a few verses.")

If you want to criticise my understanding of Paul, please respect me, and other readers here, enough to say exactly what you mean.

If you're serious about discussing Paul, move to the boxing ring with me. That way you will be obligated to answer (in reasonable time) and it will be less easy for you to avoid explaining yourself.
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25-09-2015, 04:11 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(25-09-2015 08:55 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 02:42 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Maybe, Q, your memory needs a little refreshing...

Paul the Salesman

It can be argued that Paul was a salesman with an ambitious agenda. Paul hoped to sell his interpretation of Judaism to the Roman world. He had a plan to undermine those dangerous messianic Nazarene beliefs that roused rebellion against Roman rule.

Paul wrote to various groups scattered throughout the Empire, and pleaded they believe only his theology. Judging by the content of his letters, Paul was so obsessed with snaring converts that little else in his life mattered. In Romans 15:16, he wrote that Gentiles were an offering he would bring to God.

“...that I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.”

Most of the people Paul wrote to were Gentiles (pagans) associated with Jewish synagogues, (“God-fearing Gentiles”) although he wrote to some Jews in the Diaspora too. From Paul’s perspective, his patrons were in desperate need of direction and an authoritative, charismatic leader to look up to. He considered himself just the man. Paul thought he knew how to win the hearts, minds, and souls of people, as he probably imagined himself as one of the few God fearers (i.e. Jews) who understood Gentile cultures.

“And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.” (1 Corinthians 9:20-23, KJV)

Paul’s theology probably had a long and carefully thought out gestation. Paul knew that to appeal to his customers he needed a product very different to traditional Judaism. Traditional Judaism required obedience to cumbersome dictates, and was too anti-Roman. The Jews believed men had to be circumcised, a painful and embarrass- ing procedure, not easy to sell to an adult man. The Jews worshipped Yahweh, who is portrayed in Jewish Scripture as a thunderous and violent pro-Jewish anti-Gentile God, and Jews would bow to no one but Him. The Jews had to eat kosher food, could marry only Jewish women, and were not allowed to work on the Sabbath. Jews regarded Jewish heritage and history as superior to others, and all Jews were expected to take part in the fasts and feasts celebrating the ancient epic of Israel. Many Jews thought they were one day going to be the masters of the world, and they had chips on their shoulders that right now it was Rome, not they, who were in charge. Jewish Messianic dreams were a threat to Roman rule. Paul knew that the vast majority of Gentiles, including those in the Roman government, found all this inconvenient, irksome, subversive and out of touch with reality, so he labeled these Jewish rules and beliefs as a type of “slavery.” Paul had to jettison the old Jewish rules, so he did, by reinventing Judaism so that it was more to the Gentile world’s liking.

According to Paul, there was now no need for circumcision or to stop work on the Sabbath. The dietary kosher rules were out; bacon was on the breakfast menu, with shellfish salad for lunch. Paul made the extraordinary claim that to obey the Roman government was to obey God. Paul downplayed the importance of the Jewish temple, and replaced the Jews’ hope for a political Messiah of their own with Christ, the spiritual savior of all mankind. The “kingdom of God,” according to Paul, became a place in heaven, not in Israel. Paul declared Yahweh was such a decent deity he had sent his own precious son, the Christ, to earth. Paul alleged Gentiles were descendants of Abraham too, and that the centuries-old Jewish Law was a “curse,” and a type of “slavery.” All that was now required was faith in Paul’s claims about Christ. Voilà! The Christ myth and Christian theology were born.

It can be argued that Paul was one of history’s first examples of an ambitious cult leader who, when the rules of the established religion were problematic or no longer convenient, simply invented new ones to suit himself.

Paul advocated the replacement of what he called the “old covenant” of the Jews with his entirely fabricated “new covenant.” It is evident that Paul was trying to reinvent Judaism and dampen down Jewish messianic dreams, and that he was bending over backwards to infiltrate the old religion with Gentiles and pro-Roman ideas. Paul had little idea that he was creating an almost entirely new faith, yet that is precisely what his writings helped to do many years later.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEsWX0YDB2Y
http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2006/10/12/its-not-the-end-of-the- world-or-is-it-pauls-apocalyptic-worldview-nt-26/ )

1. Since you are a physician and not an academic classicist, historian or Bible scholar, may I caution you to at least describe your theories as such rather than your latest version of "Eureka! All debates are settled! Here is how Paul created Christianity!" even as you ignore the other 8 NT writers? Thanks.

2. Since you are theorizing that Paul saw himself as just the leader needed in the situation, can you explain why he:

* limited his own income

* did work with his hands including tent making rather than allow local churches to support him financially

* raised much money for the poor

* purposed to visit Jerusalem to visit his fealty to traditional Jerusalem via the shaving of his head and vows

* gave up the comfort of marriage to speak the gospel

* spent most of his life following conversion in Roman prison--chained to walls in freezing or heated rooms, sitting in his own excrement, experiencing trials brought about by false accusations--one heck of a way to "keep the Roman conspiracy quiet" I should think!

* was beaten and mishandled by the Roman authorities until he bothered to mention his citizenship!

Mark, you have "no rules, just right" since you are an atheist on an atheists' forum, but do feel free to actually reply to at least one of my several bullet points rather than simply share more rhetoric, non-biblical and ahistorical assumptions, and venting your anger against the One Holy God.

Thanks!

If you're serious about discussing Paul, move to the boxing ring with me. That way you will be obligated to answer (in reasonable time) and it will be less easy for you to avoid explaining yourself.
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25-09-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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