Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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05-10-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(05-10-2015 01:40 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 03:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He writes pamphlets. As you can see, he's no scholar. He's unqualified.

Which pamphlets are you referring to?

I have written, edited and published quite a number of books in print.

Soft paper I hope.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-10-2015, 11:25 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(28-09-2015 02:22 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 01:53 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I see, now that I've made this argument an umpteenth time, you wish to address it. You are making unsupported assertions that Paul was a Roman conspirator. I say unsupported because Paul indeed wrote several verses encouraging Jewish people to follow both Jewish and Roman authorities as good citizens. However, for a "Roman conspirator", I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews... your theory is absurd.

"I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews... your theory is absurd."

You obviously have very little understanding of Roman history. The Roman government was tolerant of all religions, provided people paid their taxes and otherwise obeyed Roman law. There were scores of religions freely practised and even supported by the government in the Roman empire.

I assume you mean by "the Roman religion" you are referring to the imperial cult? This was sometimes observed (ceremoniously) in practice, but not in spirit...ie it wasn't taken seriously, often even by the imperial family itself. People had 2nd , 3rd or 4th religions if they wanted.

It is, therefore, entirely reasonable to posit that Paul...a Jewish Roman citizen....would heap shit on all religions (other than his own brand of woo) and for him to be doing that as a government agent. The government didn't care who you bowed down to....as long as you were a good citizen. If your woo threatened the peace (as Judaism often did) then you denigrated it (as Paul did.)

Here endeth today's lesson.

I'm still wondering why you are too gutless to defend Paul (the creator of your religion) in the boxing ring.

The lesson is you dodged and ducked, saying "Romans didn't care who you bowed to" while ignoring the fact that they did care which gods you denigrated! As did those who were upset in Diana's temple that Paul's preaching was hurting a thriving idols business!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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09-10-2015, 11:26 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(28-09-2015 02:31 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 01:53 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I see, now that I've made this argument an umpteenth time, you wish to address it. You are making unsupported assertions that Paul was a Roman conspirator. I say unsupported because Paul indeed wrote several verses encouraging Jewish people to follow both Jewish and Roman authorities as good citizens. However, for a "Roman conspirator", I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews... your theory is absurd.

"I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews..."

What is more, you are exaggerating. Please explain yourself, and perhaps provide a few ( of the "thousands" of ) examples.

Mark, are you REALLY unaware that the entire scripture, let alone Paul, proclaims that there is only one God?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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09-10-2015, 11:40 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(09-10-2015 11:26 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 02:31 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews..."

What is more, you are exaggerating. Please explain yourself, and perhaps provide a few ( of the "thousands" of ) examples.

Mark, are you REALLY unaware that the entire scripture, let alone Paul, proclaims that there is only one God?

Hmmm... what about all those Old Testament passages that proclaim otherwise? And what about the Koran, which also proclaims that there is only one God? Are Judaism, Christianity, and Islam identical? do they all proclaim the same one God? Make sure you ask a Jew, a Catholic, a Protestant, and a Muslim that question. I will be astounded if they all say "yes, we worship the same God." They will certainly differ on whether or not Jesus was/is God.
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09-10-2015, 03:51 PM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2015 04:17 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(28-09-2015 01:53 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 04:10 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "Now, respond as you never have to my assertion as to how Paul was trying to get the Jews to obey Rome by making a few verses as to same while writing entire thousand-word discussions of how the Romans were utterly lost without Jesus Christ and how all other gods in their pantheon didn't exist and how Roman idols were empowered by demons and how excited he was to have seen people in Caesar's own household converted to his sect of Judaism!"

I have absolutely no idea what the point you're trying to make here is. (I disagree with none of it... except "by making a few verses as to same..." I've presented multiple arguments as to why I think Paul was a Roman agent, yet you claim my entire argument is based "on a few verses.")

If you want to criticise my understanding of Paul, please respect me, and other readers here, enough to say exactly what you mean.

If you're serious about discussing Paul, move to the boxing ring with me. That way you will be obligated to answer (in reasonable time) and it will be less easy for you to avoid explaining yourself.

I see, now that I've made this argument an umpteenth time, you wish to address it. You are making unsupported assertions that Paul was a Roman conspirator. I say unsupported because Paul indeed wrote several verses encouraging Jewish people to follow both Jewish and Roman authorities as good citizens. However, for a "Roman conspirator", I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews... your theory is absurd.

....big....breath. I'll try again.

Q, you wrote....

"I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews..."

I suggested you were exaggerating, and I asked you to provide some examples. Where did Paul write "the Roman religion was demonic"? and what is "the" "Roman religion" you are referring to? (Paul may have written this somewhere...I'm not sure.) You haven't provided a single example. I'm only asking you to back up what you claim.
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09-10-2015, 04:02 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(09-10-2015 11:26 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 02:31 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews..."

What is more, you are exaggerating. Please explain yourself, and perhaps provide a few ( of the "thousands" of ) examples.

Mark, are you REALLY unaware that the entire scripture, let alone Paul, proclaims that there is only one God?

You really are delusional, aren't you, Q. The Jews were not monotheistic until after the Exile. Yahweh had a wife, (proven by archaeology). Your attempt to mislead people about your cult, is called "lying". I'm really suprised how you people can be SO utterly ignorant of Jewish history, and the important cultual developments that were the impetus for the change to monotheism. Don't be so damn childinsh, Q. Grow up, and get an education, PLEASE.

http://news.discovery.com/history/religi...110318.htm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-10-2015, 04:13 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(09-10-2015 11:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 02:22 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews... your theory is absurd."

You obviously have very little understanding of Roman history. The Roman government was tolerant of all religions, provided people paid their taxes and otherwise obeyed Roman law. There were scores of religions freely practised and even supported by the government in the Roman empire.

I assume you mean by "the Roman religion" you are referring to the imperial cult? This was sometimes observed (ceremoniously) in practice, but not in spirit...ie it wasn't taken seriously, often even by the imperial family itself. People had 2nd , 3rd or 4th religions if they wanted.

It is, therefore, entirely reasonable to posit that Paul...a Jewish Roman citizen....would heap shit on all religions (other than his own brand of woo) and for him to be doing that as a government agent. The government didn't care who you bowed down to....as long as you were a good citizen. If your woo threatened the peace (as Judaism often did) then you denigrated it (as Paul did.)

Here endeth today's lesson.

I'm still wondering why you are too gutless to defend Paul (the creator of your religion) in the boxing ring.

The lesson is you dodged and ducked, saying "Romans didn't care who you bowed to" while ignoring the fact that they did care which gods you denigrated! As did those who were upset in Diana's temple that Paul's preaching was hurting a thriving idols business!

There were hundreds of gods in ancient Rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_deities

The government tolerated them all.

Paul may have upset the business transactions in Diana's temple, thereby pissing off some businessmen. Your point is?
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09-10-2015, 04:38 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(28-09-2015 01:53 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 04:10 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "Now, respond as you never have to my assertion as to how Paul was trying to get the Jews to obey Rome by making a few verses as to same while writing entire thousand-word discussions of how the Romans were utterly lost without Jesus Christ and how all other gods in their pantheon didn't exist and how Roman idols were empowered by demons and how excited he was to have seen people in Caesar's own household converted to his sect of Judaism!"

I have absolutely no idea what the point you're trying to make here is. (I disagree with none of it... except "by making a few verses as to same..." I've presented multiple arguments as to why I think Paul was a Roman agent, yet you claim my entire argument is based "on a few verses.")

If you want to criticise my understanding of Paul, please respect me, and other readers here, enough to say exactly what you mean.

If you're serious about discussing Paul, move to the boxing ring with me. That way you will be obligated to answer (in reasonable time) and it will be less easy for you to avoid explaining yourself.

I see, now that I've made this argument an umpteenth time, you wish to address it. You are making unsupported assertions that Paul was a Roman conspirator. I say unsupported because Paul indeed wrote several verses encouraging Jewish people to follow both Jewish and Roman authorities as good citizens. However, for a "Roman conspirator", I'm again asking you why Paul wrote hundreds, even thousands of verses saying the Roman pantheon of gods didn't exist... the Roman religion was demonic... the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews... your theory is absurd.

You claim Paul wrote that

"the Romans were degenerates further from God than the Jews"

Please prove this. You can't.

Many Jewish people were "Romans" ie they were Roman citizens, or they lived in Rome. Paul was Roman. Did he consider himself a "degenerate?"

Here is part of Paul's introduction in his letter to "the Romans"

"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."


Please explain why he would have such warm words for "degenerates."

The reality here is that you don't understand the history. You have no idea about the socio-political cultural milieu in which Paul and his contemporaries lived. This is why you find it difficult to even imagine that Paul was working for the government.

I suspect you still imagine the old boring and untrue idea that the early Christians were persecuted by the Roman government is true. Yet read enough of the history and it will dawn on you that it was, in fact, the government that created some of the earliest versions of Christianity, and Paul was one of the tools they used to do it.
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09-10-2015, 08:25 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Q, I've started a thread in the boxing ring, for just you and me. The topic is Paul. It will be cosy...I'm sure no one else will read it....hehe. Big Grin
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12-10-2015, 10:21 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Dr. Fulton set up a debate thread in the boxing ring three days ago. Q is thus far a no show. Actions - or in this case, inaction - speaks more decisively than anything opined here. I don't know what the "hold open" bylaws are in the ring but three days is already more than reasonable accommodation - even were Q otherwise preoccupied there's no excuse for absence of even a note saying "busy now - stand by". That's just courtesy.
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