Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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18-10-2015, 10:42 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
At work.

Well..... obviously the poster 'Q' finds it important if a certain Paul existed. ....

Jus' sayin'.
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18-10-2015, 10:42 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Well, now , according to one view of the New Testament, Jesus' sacrifice was not pointless. If you consider that Jesus may have been part of a revolt against Rome, his decision to send Judas Iscariot to betray him was a surrender, which would have saved a lot of lives. So, in that sense, it as an act of altruism of the highest order and not to be sneezed at.
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18-10-2015, 10:45 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Q vs. Mark Fulton...hahahahahahahahhaha!

That's some funny stuff right there.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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18-10-2015, 10:45 AM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2015 10:49 AM by Leo.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(18-10-2015 10:39 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  This debate about Paul is like asking whether R2D2 had BO. Who gives a fuck? He's fictitious. And...who gives a fuck?

Fictitious ? Maybe he was. I think is likely that Paul was a real person and was the main founder of today's Christianity. He was a liar and charlatan of course. Much like Joseph Smith or Mohammed.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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18-10-2015, 10:45 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(18-10-2015 10:42 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Well, now , according to one view of the New Testament, Jesus' sacrifice was not pointless. If you consider that Jesus may have been part of a revolt against Rome, his decision to send Judas Iscariot to betray him was a surrender, which would have saved a lot of lives. So, in that sense, it as an act of altruism of the highest order and not to be sneezed at.

If he's fictitious, who gives a fuck? Obviously, the answer is those who don't not believe he is fictitious, the point is to demonstrate that folly in various sensible dialogues. That's why the fucks are given. Drinking Beverage

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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18-10-2015, 10:53 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
It's a story! It's based on the lives of two brothers, lets call them Jesus 1 and Jesus 2. They were identical twins. No one could tell them apart except one was a fighter and the other was a peaceful gay guy. So the warrior, Jesus 1, decided to try to take on the Romans and when the game was up, he got his brother, Jesus 2, to take the rap and get crucified. The Jews got hold of him, Jesus 1, and threw him off a cliff. No one heard of him after that. His brother, Jesus 2, survived the curcifixion and left town.

I think I've got it right. Anyway, after that, somebody made it into a paperback and it sold like hotcakes.
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18-10-2015, 10:59 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Laugh out load

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18-10-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(18-10-2015 10:45 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(18-10-2015 10:42 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Well, now , according to one view of the New Testament, Jesus' sacrifice was not pointless. If you consider that Jesus may have been part of a revolt against Rome, his decision to send Judas Iscariot to betray him was a surrender, which would have saved a lot of lives. So, in that sense, it as an act of altruism of the highest order and not to be sneezed at.

If he's fictitious, who gives a fuck? Obviously, the answer is those who don't not believe he is fictitious, the point is to demonstrate that folly in various sensible dialogues. That's why the fucks are given. Drinking Beverage

I have put forward a very sensible view that Paul is Josephus Flavius. Mark ignores this. He can't see the obvious parallels. He can't find a Paul or a Saul in the historical record and he feels, somehow, that by ignoring the elephant in the room he is somehow getting somewhere with whatever it is he is trying to do.

If the NT is a political work, as I believe it is, then Paul is a pseudonym for the person/persons who were responsible for writing it up and distributing it to the cult it was aimed at converting to this new religion. I fail to see the point of discussing whether Paul was a charlatan. It's pointless, hence my attempt to add some levity to this painful dialogue.

Except the Jesus 1 and 2 isn't a joke:

Wiki: Adiabene (from the Ancient Greek Ἀδιαβηνή, Adiabene, itself derived from Classical Syriac: ܚܕܝܐܒ, Ḥaḏy’aḇ or Ḥḏay’aḇ, Old Persian: Nodshirakan,[4] Armenian: Նոր Շիրական, Nor Shirakan) was an ancient kingdom in Assyria,[5][6][7][8] with its capital at Arbela (modern-day Arbil, Iraq).

Its rulers converted to Judaism from Ashurism in the 1st century.[9] Queen Helena of Adiabene (known in Jewish sources as Heleni HaMalka) moved to Jerusalem where she built palaces for herself and her sons, Izates bar Monobaz and Monobaz II (Izates 1 and Izates 2)
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18-10-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(18-10-2015 10:53 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It's a story! It's based on the lives of two brothers, lets call them Jesus 1 and Jesus 2. They were identical twins. No one could tell them apart except one was a fighter and the other was a peaceful gay guy. So the warrior, Jesus 1, decided to try to take on the Romans and when the game was up, he got his brother, Jesus 2, to take the rap and get crucified. The Jews got hold of him, Jesus 1, and threw him off a cliff. No one heard of him after that. His brother, Jesus 2, survived the curcifixion and left town.

I think I've got it right. Anyway, after that, somebody made it into a paperback and it sold like hotcakes.

Your twin brother hypothesis could be right. But maybe a single Jesus survived the cruxifiction. He was hung on the cross for a few hours. Pilate was surprised about Jesus super fast "death". On average cruxifiction victims lasted between 1 and 2 days on the cross.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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18-10-2015, 11:09 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Izates bar Monobaz
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Izates II (Ἰζάτης), son of Monobaz (Μονόβαζος), or Izates bar Monobaz (also known as Izaates, Persian: ایزد‎‎ or Hebrew: זוטוס בן מונבז‎) (ca. 1-55 CE) was a king of the Parthian client kingdom of Adiabene who became a proselyte to Judaism. He was the son of Queen Helena of Adiabene and Monobaz I. During his youth he was sent by his father to the court of King Abinergaos I of Characene in Charax Spasinu. While in Charax Izates became acquainted with a Jewish merchant named Ananias, who familiarized him with the tenets of the Jewish religion, in which he became deeply interested. Izates married King Abinergaos' daughter Symacho who had been converted to Judaism through the efforts of Ananias. His mother had been previously won over to Judaism without his knowledge. On returning home and ascending the throne on the death of his father (c. 31 CE), Izates discovered the conversion of his mother; and he himself intended to adopt Judaism, and even to submit to circumcision. He was, however, dissuaded from this step both by his teacher Ananias and by his mother, but was ultimately persuaded thereto by another Jew, Eleazar.[1][2]

For some time Izates enjoyed peace; and he was so highly respected that he was chosen as arbitrator between the Parthian king Artabanus III and his rebellious nobles (c. 39 CE). But when several of Izates' relatives openly acknowledged their conversion to Judaism, some of the nobles of Adiabene secretly induced Abia, an Arab king, to declare war against him. Izates defeated his enemy, who in despair committed suicide. The nobles then conspired with Vologases, King of Parthia, but the latter was at the last moment prevented from carrying out his plans, and Izates continued to reign undisturbed for a total of twenty-four years.

Izates died around 55 CE. His mother Helena survived him for only a short time. He left twenty-four sons and twenty-four daughters. Izates was succeeded by his older brother Monobaz II, who sent Izates' remains and those of Queen Helena to Jerusalem for burial.

Monobaz II or Monobaz bar Monobaz was the son of Helena of Adiabene and Monobaz I. Like his younger brother Izates bar Monobaz and his mother, Monobaz became a convert to Judaism. He ruled as king of Adiabene after the death of his brother Izates around 55 CE. The date of his death is unknown but he is known to have been alive and on the throne during the First Jewish-Roman War, when he gave aid to the Jewish rebels against the Roman Empire. The Talmud relates that Monobaz "dissipated all his own hoards and the hordes of his fathers in years of scarcity. His bothers and his father's household came in a delegation to him and said, 'Your father saved money and added to the treasures of his fathers, and you are squandering them.' He replied, 'My fathers stored up below and I am storing up above... My fathers stored in a place which can be tampered with, but I have stored in a place which cannot be tampered with… My fathers gathered treasures of money and I have gathered treasures of souls...'[1] King Monobaz also donated handsome gifts to the Temple in Jerusalem. "King Monobaz had all the handles of all the vessels used on Yom Kippur made of gold… He also made of gold the base of the vessels, the rims of the vessels, the handles of the vessels, and the handles of the knives...[2]
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