Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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22-10-2015, 01:46 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(21-10-2015 03:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-10-2015 12:20 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If 9 writers write 100,000 words about Jesus, and 10 1st century non-Christian historians comment on Christianity, and the NT fulfills hundreds of prophecies... your comment is very far out of context...

There is no such thing as "fulfilled prophecy". At least half of them didn't come true. Even if you accept the presentist interpretation of "prophecy as prediction". It's a false standard anyway. You know as well as we do that there is no level at which fundie believers would not believe, no matter how many they claim as "having come true". The role of a prophet was not to predict the future. It was to advise about what they thought was wise behavior, and what the outcome of decisions AT THE TIME would be for the community. I get that simpletons and those who *need* the Babble to be literally true don't have any room for the subtle nuances of acnient literature, but really, you should take a class or two before you keep making a fool of yoruself, Q.

**

Quote:At least half of them didn't come true.

Correct. The prophecies of Christ's second advent are yet to be fulfilled for obvious reasons. The prophecies of Christ's first visit in flesh are fulfilled--son of David, born of a virgin, betrayed for 30 silver pieces with a kiss on the cheek, raised up to be mocked and humiliated, hands and feet pierced, born in Bethlehem, etc.

I've taught a class or two and also graduated from many classes. You are still in school, yes? Pot and kettle. Be nice, Bucky!

PS. Do you think the Mets will go all the way?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-10-2015, 02:05 PM (This post was last modified: 22-10-2015 05:00 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-10-2015 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-10-2015 03:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is no such thing as "fulfilled prophecy". At least half of them didn't come true. Even if you accept the presentist interpretation of "prophecy as prediction". It's a false standard anyway. You know as well as we do that there is no level at which fundie believers would not believe, no matter how many they claim as "having come true". The role of a prophet was not to predict the future. It was to advise about what they thought was wise behavior, and what the outcome of decisions AT THE TIME would be for the community. I get that simpletons and those who *need* the Babble to be literally true don't have any room for the subtle nuances of acnient literature, but really, you should take a class or two before you keep making a fool of yoruself, Q.

**

Quote:At least half of them didn't come true.

Correct. The prophecies of Christ's second advent are yet to be fulfilled for obvious reasons. The prophecies of Christ's first visit in flesh are fulfilled--son of David, born of a virgin, betrayed for 30 silver pieces with a kiss on the cheek, raised up to be mocked and humiliated, hands and feet pierced, born in Bethlehem, etc.

I've taught a class or two and also graduated from many classes. You are still in school, yes? Pot and kettle. Be nice, Bucky!

PS. Do you think the Mets will go all the way?

He wasn't really a "son of David". The "sign" of the virgin birth didn't even refer to him, (and the word, correctly translated, doesn't even mean "virgin"). The sign given to the PEOPLE OF THE TIME by Isaiah referred to a child of the same time. See below. All of that is a smoke screen anyway. The "annointed one" (kings were *annointed* - the messiah) was to lead the Jews to freedom and viCtory. Jesus didn't get the job done. Tongue
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...3#pid49743

Quote:PS. Do you think the Mets will go all the way?

I"ll go for a prophecy reading at Madame Zelda's Emporium of Dildos, Snakes and Prophecy, and let you know.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-10-2015, 02:22 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-10-2015 02:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He wasn't really a "son of David". The "sign" of the virgin birth didn't even refer to him, (and the word, correctly translated, doesn't even mean "virgin"). The sign given to the PEOPLE OF THE TIME by Isaiah referred to a child of the same time. See below. All of that is a smoke screen anyway. The "annointed one" (kings were *annointed* - the messiah) was to lead the Jews to freedom and viCtory. Jesus didn't get the job done. Tongue
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...3#pid49743

It amazes me that the Christians who cite this verse (and the New Testament writers who wrote the whole Virgin Mary stuff) didn't see that the verses in Isaiah specifically mention that the "prophecy" being mentioned there refers to something that would happen during the reign of the king being spoken of in that passage, and that "alma" didn't mean "virgin", since there's a place in the OT where alma is used to describe a woman who is an unabashed whore. It's no wonder the Jews of the time thought the Christians were idiots.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-10-2015, 02:25 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
a 110 pages and till counting

this thread has 9 more pages than there are dogs in 101 dalmatians
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23-10-2015, 03:09 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-10-2015 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-10-2015 03:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is no such thing as "fulfilled prophecy". At least half of them didn't come true. Even if you accept the presentist interpretation of "prophecy as prediction". It's a false standard anyway. You know as well as we do that there is no level at which fundie believers would not believe, no matter how many they claim as "having come true". The role of a prophet was not to predict the future. It was to advise about what they thought was wise behavior, and what the outcome of decisions AT THE TIME would be for the community. I get that simpletons and those who *need* the Babble to be literally true don't have any room for the subtle nuances of acnient literature, but really, you should take a class or two before you keep making a fool of yoruself, Q.

**

Quote:At least half of them didn't come true.

Correct. The prophecies of Christ's second advent are yet to be fulfilled for obvious reasons. The prophecies of Christ's first visit in flesh are fulfilled--son of David, born of a virgin, betrayed for 30 silver pieces with a kiss on the cheek, raised up to be mocked and humiliated, hands and feet pierced, born in Bethlehem, etc.

I've taught a class or two and also graduated from many classes. You are still in school, yes? Pot and kettle. Be nice, Bucky!

PS. Do you think the Mets will go all the way?

"Correct. The prophecies of Christ's second advent are yet to be fulfilled for obvious reasons."

Please fill me in. I could use a laugh. It never fails to amaze me how fucking deluded people like you are.
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23-10-2015, 10:19 AM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2015 10:23 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
I just watched a program about the Bog men. Apparently, there was a Celtic tradition (lovely people) of taking a leader of their community and beheading him, hacking his body to bits, slicing of his nipples, stuffing various orifices with herbs and dumping his body in a peat bog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hKLbmuMMyo Same time as Jesus...
Which, working backwards, would point to the Galatians of Galilee and Golan being Gauls who understood the idea of sacrificing a "Lamb of God" and "King of Kings" to save the rest of them from the wrath of the "big guy" who they worshipped and feared. Or from the Romans. So, not pointless at all.
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23-10-2015, 11:39 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-10-2015 02:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  **


Correct. The prophecies of Christ's second advent are yet to be fulfilled for obvious reasons. The prophecies of Christ's first visit in flesh are fulfilled--son of David, born of a virgin, betrayed for 30 silver pieces with a kiss on the cheek, raised up to be mocked and humiliated, hands and feet pierced, born in Bethlehem, etc.

I've taught a class or two and also graduated from many classes. You are still in school, yes? Pot and kettle. Be nice, Bucky!

PS. Do you think the Mets will go all the way?

He wasn't really a "son of David". The "sign" of the virgin birth didn't even refer to him, (and the word, correctly translated, doesn't even mean "virgin"). The sign given to the PEOPLE OF THE TIME by Isaiah referred to a child of the same time. See below. All of that is a smoke screen anyway. The "annointed one" (kings were *annointed* - the messiah) was to lead the Jews to freedom and viCtory. Jesus didn't get the job done. Tongue
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...3#pid49743

Quote:PS. Do you think the Mets will go all the way?

I"ll go for a prophecy reading at Madame Zelda's Emporium of Dildos, Snakes and Prophecy, and let you know.

Sorry but "the young woman will have a child" isn't a SIGN. Behold, this is the sign to you, a young woman will have a child... and when the sign comes, the army that is bothering you will be defeated.

No.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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23-10-2015, 11:41 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(23-10-2015 03:09 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 01:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  **


Correct. The prophecies of Christ's second advent are yet to be fulfilled for obvious reasons. The prophecies of Christ's first visit in flesh are fulfilled--son of David, born of a virgin, betrayed for 30 silver pieces with a kiss on the cheek, raised up to be mocked and humiliated, hands and feet pierced, born in Bethlehem, etc.

I've taught a class or two and also graduated from many classes. You are still in school, yes? Pot and kettle. Be nice, Bucky!

PS. Do you think the Mets will go all the way?

"Correct. The prophecies of Christ's second advent are yet to be fulfilled for obvious reasons."

Please fill me in. I could use a laugh. It never fails to amaze me how fucking deluded people like you are.

Mark, are you wholly unaware that there are prophecies in the OT of a suffering servant Messiah and a King/ruler/conqueror Messiah both? Are you unaware of the NT discussions where Jesus (and John the Baptist) is asked whether Jesus is the expected one or whether there will be (another) someone?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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23-10-2015, 12:07 PM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2015 12:20 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(23-10-2015 11:39 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 02:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He wasn't really a "son of David". The "sign" of the virgin birth didn't even refer to him, (and the word, correctly translated, doesn't even mean "virgin"). The sign given to the PEOPLE OF THE TIME by Isaiah referred to a child of the same time. See below. All of that is a smoke screen anyway. The "annointed one" (kings were *annointed* - the messiah) was to lead the Jews to freedom and viCtory. Jesus didn't get the job done. Tongue
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...3#pid49743


I"ll go for a prophecy reading at Madame Zelda's Emporium of Dildos, Snakes and Prophecy, and let you know.

Sorry but "the young woman will have a child" isn't a SIGN. Behold, this is the sign to you, a young woman will have a child... and when the sign comes, the army that is bothering you will be defeated.

No.

"No" is not an argument, Mr. Ignorant of Scripture. A "sign" to the people of the same time is not a "prophecy" to be fulfilled many centuries later. It's perfectly obvious that Isaiah was talking to the PEOPLE OF HIS OWN TIME, and the young woman of marriageable age found to be pregnant, (which as a court advisor it is more than likely he already knew would happen) was to be "Emmanu-el" (that their god was still with them) was the sign to THEIR OWN TIME. An interpretation of a PRESENT event. The fad of interpreting "peshers" http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278
had not even become popular yet at the time Isaiah would have said that. But then, you know nothing of the actual cultural history of the Ancient Near East. All you know is fundie literal nonsensse you learned by rote repetition. -
+

You REALLY shoulld take a class from a real scholar some day, Q. Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-10-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(23-10-2015 12:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-10-2015 11:39 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Sorry but "the young woman will have a child" isn't a SIGN. Behold, this is the sign to you, a young woman will have a child... and when the sign comes, the army that is bothering you will be defeated.

No.

"No" is not an argument, Mr. Ignorant of Scripture. A "sign" to the people of the same time is not a "prophecy" to be fulfilled many centuries later. It's perfectly obvious that Isaiah was talking to the PEOPLE OF HIS OWN TIME, and the young woman of marriageable age found to be pregnant, (which as a court advisor it is more than likely he already knew would happen) was to be "Emmanu-el" (that their god was still with them) was the sign to THEIR OWN TIME. An interpretation of a PRESENT event. The fad of interpreting "peshers" http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278
had not even become popular yet at the time Isaiah would have said that. But then, you know nothing of the actual cultural history of the Ancient Near East. All you know is fundie literal nonsensse you learned by rote repetition. -
+

You REALLY shoulld take a class from a real scholar some day, Q. Tongue


You remind me of some kid arguing about comic book characters. The real events can only be learned from real evidence, which is DNA, archaeology and other sciences, and by comparing cultures, languages. Reading some book which is written by god knows who and then pretending you know better is just intellectual posturing.

What sayest thou of wise one about Abraham of Ur of the Chaldees? Surely he is just a proto-Celt and his people are the the Aryans.

Oh, and what do you make of the DNA studies of Dr. Eran Elhaik at Johns Hopkins who says that Jewish DNA is no different from any other Europeans? Hard stuff to swallow for you, I suppose: http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/ea...hort?rss=1

What you get in response to this isn't rational. Observe closely!
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