Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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26-10-2015, 01:49 PM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-10-2015 11:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: 1. Many scholars think Paul was indeed married, than a widower. One reason I can cite--he speaks knowledgeably on marriage and marriage intimacy... He was gay. That was his "thorn" he spoke of. (26-10-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: 2. King David called the Gentiles dogs--it's a prophecy. Please don't say the OT condemns King David! That's not what prophecy is. You really need to re-take Bible 101. David did all kinds of stupid sinful things. What ? You never even read the Bible ? (26-10-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: 3. I think that Paul taking beatings to witness to the Gentiles, getting rejected by the Jews for witnessing to Gentiles, and Jesus dying for the Gentiles, is "good behavior". Whatever. ![]() Insufferable know-it-all. ![]() |
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26-10-2015, 02:12 PM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-10-2015 01:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:(26-10-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: 2. King David called the Gentiles dogs--it's a prophecy. Please don't say the OT condemns King David! I'm just going to piggyback on this real quick... David sinned. We know that. With his monumental sin of sending Bat Sheva's husband to the front line so he could marry her for himself, it says that David was forgiven instantaneously upon feeling genuine remorse. No sacrifice needed to gain G-d's forgiveness. Sincere regret, fix the error if you can, legitimately change your behavior, don't do it again if the same opportunity presents itself. That's the real formula for forgiveness that's spelled out in the book that Christians believe their religion comes from. Blood was simply not an ingredient necessary for David to be cleared of his sin. |
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26-10-2015, 05:45 PM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-10-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: Again, you are also goal post shifting. Why? Because whether the prophecy was for later (Mary the virgin) or then (a sign to the king) or both, A YOUNG WOMAN HAVING A CHILD IS NOT A MIRACULOUS SIGN. A virgin bearing a child, IS. There is no evidence that it ever happened. So there's that. ![]() Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims. Science is not a subject, but a method. ![]() |
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26-10-2015, 07:31 PM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-10-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: Again, you are also goal post shifting. Why? Because whether the prophecy was for later (Mary the virgin) or then (a sign to the king) or both, A YOUNG WOMAN HAVING A CHILD IS NOT A MIRACULOUS SIGN. [b]A virgin bearing a child, IS[/b]. virgin + turkey baster + sperm sample = virgin bearing a child. No miracle required. #sigh |
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27-10-2015, 05:00 AM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-10-2015 07:31 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:(26-10-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: Again, you are also goal post shifting. Why? Because whether the prophecy was for later (Mary the virgin) or then (a sign to the king) or both, A YOUNG WOMAN HAVING A CHILD IS NOT A MIRACULOUS SIGN. [b]A virgin bearing a child, IS[/b]. Makes you kind of wonder, why wouldn't there be a gospel of the hymen inspector? Whoever inspected her hymen was an awfully important testimony/eyewitness. ![]() Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition |
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27-10-2015, 01:56 PM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-10-2015 11:40 AM)Aliza Wrote:(26-10-2015 11:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: 1. Many scholars think Paul was indeed married, than a widower. One reason I can cite--he speaks knowledgeably on marriage and marriage intimacy... One may serve God in singlehood for honor, not as sin. Jesus was quoting a prophecy just before He released a miracle on the person He address that way. No. Cutting a tree down is not a sin, and not only was the tree not utterly destroyed, Jesus spoke of it bearing fruit again in the future. I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior. |
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27-10-2015, 02:01 PM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-10-2015 11:59 AM)Aliza Wrote: The atheists and I can disagree on whether the bible is true or not, but I think we probably do agree that if Christianity claims to be founded on Jewish principals and Jewish prophesy, then such claims should be unambiguously supported in the founding doctrine. This is especially so if our eternal souls are at risk for not believing. Messianic expectation at the time was high. Mary had a response that shows how normal the Bible heroes were--I think any virgin would say, "Whoa!" but Mary soon after confirms her excitement exactly as you wrote--"I'm the Lord's servant..." Joseph also behaved as a hero, seeking a quiet annulment of their engagement rather than shaming Mary. My point remains. A young woman having a child is hardly a miracle sign. The same G_d gave Abraham, Hannah and others miracles progeny. I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior. |
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27-10-2015, 02:03 PM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-10-2015 01:24 PM)Aliza Wrote:(26-10-2015 11:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: 2. King David called the Gentiles dogs--it's a prophecy. Please don't say the OT condemns King David! We can start with Psalm 22 if you like: Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. 17 All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. 18 They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment. We can do more but you can probably see the prophecies of Jesus--particular since David was never personally surround by Gentiles who pierced his hands and feet and stared at his shredded flesh whipped down to the bone, while some other Gentiles gambled for his clothing! I'm curious--what is the blasphemy Paul committed, do you think? I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior. |
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27-10-2015, 02:05 PM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-10-2015 01:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:(26-10-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: BB, Okay, but would you please explain how it's a "sign" for a young woman to have a child? That doesn't sound like the other "signs" God produces in the scriptures. Does a young woman having a child sound like a miracle to you or a natural event? I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior. |
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27-10-2015, 02:13 PM
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RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Q - That's the definition of alma, whether you like it or not. The sign to the king of whom Isaiah is speaking (and the people of Israel) would be a child born to a young woman of the kingdom, who would lead the people from their bondage to an age of Israelite glory again. More importantly, it is the prophet Isaiah himself, speaking to King Ahaz, telling him that God will show HIM a sign of the deliverer, if he just asks. Ahaz refuses because of the verses about not tempting the Lord, and so Isaiah tells him what the sign will be:
7:11 יא שְׁאַל-לְךָ אוֹת, מֵעִם יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ; הַעְמֵק שְׁאָלָה, אוֹ הַגְבֵּהַּ לְמָעְלָה. "Ask a sign from the Lord your God, from lowest Sheol or from highest heaven." 7:12 יב וַיֹּאמֶר, אָחָז: לֹא-אֶשְׁאַל וְלֹא-אֲנַסֶּה, אֶת-יְהוָה. But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not test the Lord." 7:13 יג וַיֹּאמֶר, שִׁמְעוּ-נָא בֵּית דָּוִד: הַמְעַט מִכֶּם הַלְאוֹת אֲנָשִׁים, כִּי תַלְאוּ גַּם אֶת-אֱלֹהָי. Then he retorted: "Listen, house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you also try the patience of my God? 7:14 יד לָכֵן יִתֵּן אֲדֹנָי הוּא, לָכֶם--אוֹת: הִנֵּה הָעַלְמָה, הָרָה וְיֹלֶדֶת בֵּן, וְקָרָאת שְׁמוֹ, עִמָּנוּ אֵל. therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: a maiden is with child and she will bear a son, and will call his name Immanuel. 7:15 טו חֶמְאָה וּדְבַשׁ, יֹאכֵל--לְדַעְתּוֹ מָאוֹס בָּרָע, וּבָחוֹר בַּטּוֹב. By the time he learns to reject the bad and choose the good, he will be eating curds and honey. 7:16 טז כִּי בְּטֶרֶם יֵדַע הַנַּעַר, מָאֹס בָּרָע--וּבָחֹר בַּטּוֹב: תֵּעָזֵב הָאֲדָמָה אֲשֶׁר אַתָּה קָץ, מִפְּנֵי שְׁנֵי מְלָכֶיהָ. For before the child knows to reject the bad and choose the good, desolation will come upon the land of the two kings before whom you now cower." You don't have to like it, but that's what it says. The Christians got it wrong, when coming up with their "101 Prophecies That Predicted Our Leader Was The Messiah, And You Won't Believe What Happened Next!" click-bait. "Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson |
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