Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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29-10-2015, 02:13 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(27-10-2015 03:58 PM)Aliza Wrote:  We don't advertise (we wouldn't anyway), and we're not trying to get them to convert to Judaism. They are coming to us of their own accord, and all we're doing is answering the questions. I've seen more Christians walk away from Christianity in the last few years than I've ever seen Jews going to Jews for Jesus in my entire life.

Reminded me of this...

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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29-10-2015, 02:32 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(29-10-2015 02:13 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Reminded me of this...

[Image: 7570.jpg]

I didn't know Jesus was that short.
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29-10-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(29-10-2015 02:32 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 02:13 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Reminded me of this...

[Image: 7570.jpg]

I didn't know Jesus was that short.
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He was a Middle Eastern Jew, what did you expect? Cool

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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29-10-2015, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2015 08:22 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(29-10-2015 01:42 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Bucky,
Actually, I think Isaiah was referring to his own son, Mahar-Shalal-Hash-Baz, born to his second wife.

I still want to know who and to what event Isaiah was referring to when he gave the prophecy, according to Q.

Doc

"Ask a sign from the Lord your God, from lowest Sheol or from highest heaven." 7:12 יב וַיֹּאמֶר, אָחָז: לֹא-אֶשְׁאַל וְלֹא-אֲנַסֶּה, אֶת-יְהוָה. But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not test the Lord." 7:13 יג וַיֹּאמֶר, שִׁמְעוּ-נָא בֵּית דָּוִד: הַמְעַט מִכֶּם הַלְאוֹת אֲנָשִׁים, כִּי תַלְאוּ גַּם אֶת-אֱלֹהָי. Then he retorted: "Listen, house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you also try the patience of my God? 7:14 יד לָכֵן יִתֵּן אֲדֹנָי הוּא, לָכֶם--אוֹת: הִנֵּה הָעַלְמָה, הָרָה וְיֹלֶדֶת בֵּן, וְקָרָאת שְׁמוֹ, עִמָּנוּ אֵל. therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: a young woman IS pregnant, and she will bear a son, and will call his name Immanuel. 7:15 טו חֶמְאָה וּדְבַשׁ, יֹאכֵל--לְדַעְתּוֹ מָאוֹס בָּרָע, וּבָחוֹר בַּטּוֹב. By the time he learns to reject the bad and choose the good, he will be eating curds and honey. 7:16 טז כִּי בְּטֶרֶם יֵדַע הַנַּעַר, מָאֹס בָּרָע--וּבָחֹר בַּטּוֹב: תֵּעָזֵב הָאֲדָמָה אֲשֶׁר אַתָּה קָץ, מִפְּנֵי שְׁנֵי מְלָכֶיהָ. For before the child knows to reject the bad and choose the good, desolation will come upon the land of the two kings before whom you NOW cower."

There is no question. The child THEN was the sign Isiah was talking about, and Ahaz was being exorted to keep up the fight AT THAT TIME. The words of Isaiah had NOTHING to do with a far future time. Ahaz was being given advice FOR HIS OWN TIME, and the child (Emmanu-el) was that sign. It has nothing to do with a messiah, (and Mary never named him Emmanuel for that matter).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-10-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(29-10-2015 03:08 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 02:32 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I didn't know Jesus was that short.
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He was a Middle Eastern Jew, what did you expect? Cool

I didn't expect him to be so white either.
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29-10-2015, 07:06 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(29-10-2015 06:05 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 03:08 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  He was a Middle Eastern Jew, what did you expect? Cool

I didn't expect him to be so white either.
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29-10-2015, 07:20 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(29-10-2015 06:05 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 03:08 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  He was a Middle Eastern Jew, what did you expect? Cool

I didn't expect him to be so white either.
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30-10-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(29-10-2015 07:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 06:05 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I didn't expect him to be so white either.
Consider

We each form our own images of fictional characters. Drinking Beverage

When someone puts a visual image in your head, though, it's hard to resist. I'm convinced that Moms is Mae West and GirlyMan is Nietzsche. And General Patton looked just like George C. Scott.
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30-10-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(28-10-2015 08:33 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 08:27 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  Leave aside that opinions are neither correct nor incorrect, which is why they are called opinions, by what standard would anyone ascertain the "correctness" of a position held about "scripture". It's a linguistic impossibility, and the forever increasing divisiveness of sectarian interpretation proves it's impossible.

Well, there are certain things that you can say are present or are not present in the text. I may not be able to argue that the text was written by G-d, but I can certainly point to the text and identify what words are actually formed.

Go back a few posts and take a look at the examples that I posted where the word "virgin" appears in the text. You can see for yourself what Hebrew word consistently matches the English word "virgin". Why doesn't the word match in Isaiah 7:14? -These are the types of arguments that we're having when we say discrepancies in the text or mistranslations.

I'm familiar with arguments--including this one--for and against "virgin". What is your response to the concept that young maidens having babies isn't a "sign"?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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30-10-2015, 12:58 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(29-10-2015 09:40 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 09:32 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  So please tell us--just what--exactly, precisely, specifically, was THE important element in Hebrew sacrifice? Because even secular students of history understand the shed blood of Jesus Christ was prefigured in the shed blood of the Temple/Tabernacle sacrifices. Please, enlighten us. And please, stand behind your general statements like "it was just one of a multifaceted retinue of things..."

THAT is completely hysterical, Q boy. REFERENCES REQUIRED. There is no source of SECULAR history that even begins to talk about "prefiguring" ANYTHING, and you can't name 2 "secular scholars" that write about that. You're just outright LYING. That is a FAITH statement, and an ignorant incorrect one at that. You are SO bound up in your ignorant fundie delusion of "prophecy" you can't see straight. "Prefiguring" is the same as omen reading, and the same as your ignorant notion of the role of a prophet. The Hebrews sacrificed all kinds of things. Animals AND plants (harvested). They can't possibly "prefigure" your Jebus, as : a) most Jews AT THE TIME of the prophetic utterances, and the blood sacrifices were not expecting a messiah, and b.) your Jebus did not accomplish the role of a messiah. The PROOF of that, is that even AFTER Jesus of Nazareth (IF he really existed) those that were looking for one, STILL expected one, and some thought Simon bar Kochba WAS the messiah. At least he started to get something done. You are INCOMPETENT to even begin discussing the Bible.

Okay, repeating. What is more important than killing animals and shedding blood in the Hebrew sacrificial system? That was the statement you made--that it wasn't anywhere of primacy. Should I take your latest rant as an acknowledgement that you are wrong?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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