Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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23-04-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(23-04-2015 11:33 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 10:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  And those distinctions are ... ? Consider

The Christians were terrified, the atheists were not. At least that's been my observation.

If Christian in question believes in Hell then it is no wonder he could be afraid. Hovewer I don't get this fear of death. As Epicurus said: "Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist".
Suffering and uncurable, debilitating sickness is another matter, but then I'm not against euthanasy.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-04-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(23-04-2015 10:36 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 07:21 AM)Dusky Wrote:  Do you know they went to hell? Or do you believe they went to hell based on your model of christianity?

To paraphrase Voltaire's maid, "Never again will I attend the deathbed of an atheist." I've watched Christians and atheists suffer then pass and the distinctions are as night and day.
Let me guess,
With the atheist you saw shadows creep in from under the door, the windows iced over, a message appears on the window "We're coming for you", you heard demonic mutterings and heard clawing and scratching, the atheist scream, oh my god they've come for me, no, no get away, Ahhhhh, it burns!, they are clawing my flesh, Nooooooooooooooooo!
Everyone in the room flees and has nightmares for the next month.

With the Christian, you saw a bright light from above, a beconning warmth, some butterflies fluttering about, flowers blossomed, then the Christian claims, I see a light, and in the light I see grandmama, she is smiling, welcoming me, oh look, there is my long lost childhood friend, Oh and my baby that was still born, she has grown up now, she wants a hug, Oh this is so exciting, I going to the light, hello grandmama, hello my beautiful daughter..
Everyone in the room cheers and sheds tears of joy.
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24-04-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(23-04-2015 01:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 10:36 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  To paraphrase Voltaire's maid, "Never again will I attend the deathbed of an atheist." I've watched Christians and atheists suffer then pass and the distinctions are as night and day.
Let me guess,
With the atheist you saw shadows creep in from under the door, the windows iced over, a message appears on the window "We're coming for you", you heard demonic mutterings and heard clawing and scratching, the atheist scream, oh my god they've come for me, no, no get away, Ahhhhh, it burns!, they are clawing my flesh, Nooooooooooooooooo!
Everyone in the room flees and has nightmares for the next month.

With the Christian, you saw a bright light from above, a beconning warmth, some butterflies fluttering about, flowers blossomed, then the Christian claims, I see a light, and in the light I see grandmama, she is smiling, welcoming me, oh look, there is my long lost childhood friend, Oh and my baby that was still born, she has grown up now, she wants a hug, Oh this is so exciting, I going to the light, hello grandmama, hello my beautiful daughter..
Everyone in the room cheers and sheds tears of joy.

Not quite, Mister Bond.

What I've observed doing ministry in nursing homes and hospice centers is that born again patients are mentally together, and happy for a visit, and happy in general, even the ones whose family are long gone and who have not had regular visits for months, even years. God gives Christians a sound mind per 2 Timothy 1. These people are alert, sharp and want to tell you what they read in the Bible that morning that encouraged them...

I've also had the displeasure of watching loved ones die in agony as well as the unredeemed state.

I've also encountered (and some of them are my friends, but it takes patience) older skeptics, older, it seems, than many or most on this forum, and boy are they in trouble--not judgment of Hell--that's not what I mean. Rather I mean they are nasty old curs.

Take Christopher Hitchens--not his death--his life. What a towering intellect he was! What a keen and insightful mind! But not a nice man at all. One of his "hobbies" was having peers and faculty come over for dinner and to demonstrate his brilliance in logic and argumentation by reducing them to tears. Ayn Rand was the same way. She was famous for arguing through the night until her friends were no longer her friends. Again, Rand has so much to say and would likely reprove many skeptics today for being way too liberal in their economic and political worldview. But she was a nasty piece of work in some ways. Sad.

Me? I was a real piece of work before Jesus, and He's still working. I know that. But my marriage and children and relationships are on a base of God. Getting better all the time, like the Beatles sang...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-04-2015, 08:35 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-04-2015 08:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  What I've observed doing ministry in nursing homes and hospice centers is that born again patients are mentally together, and happy for a visit, and happy in general, even the ones whose family are long gone and who have not had regular visits for months, even years. God gives Christians a sound mind per 2 Timothy 1. These people are alert, sharp and want to tell you what they read in the Bible that morning that encouraged them...

Does that include patients suffering from dementia? Or are they no longer born again?

Quote:I've also had the displeasure of watching loved ones die in agony as well as the unredeemed state.

Are you trying to tie those two different things together?

Quote:I've also encountered (and some of them are my friends, but it takes patience) older skeptics, older, it seems, than many or most on this forum, and boy are they in trouble--not judgment of Hell--that's not what I mean. Rather I mean they are nasty old curs.

And I've met some nasty Christians and happy atheists in nursing homes.

Quote:Take Christopher Hitchens--not his death--his life. What a towering intellect he was! What a keen and insightful mind! But not a nice man at all. One of his "hobbies" was having peers and faculty come over for dinner and to demonstrate his brilliance in logic and argumentation by reducing them to tears.

Citation required.

Quote: Me? I was a real piece of work before Jesus, and He's still working. I know that. But my marriage and children and relationships are on a base of God. Getting better all the time, like the Beatles sang...

No, you're still a real piece of work. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-04-2015, 01:40 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-04-2015 08:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Me? I was a real piece of work before Jesus, and He's still working. I know that. But my marriage and children and relationships are on a base of God. Getting better all the time, like the Beatles sang...
I can really only speak for myself and offer some observations regarding my own family.

I'm an atheist, obviously.
My wife is too. My six year old said "god's not real" so that means she counts as an atheist, my 4 year old never talks of god so I'm pretty sure she is an atheist too.

My family is wonderful. We are pretty active, enjoy exercise, music, going for beach and bush walks. My kids are very fun loving and lively. They certainly have a zest for life. My wife is a friendly and smart lady who has a positive outlook on life and is admired by many friends.

So there you have it. A bunch of atheists enjoying life and this is based on the foundation that life is here and to be enjoyed.
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24-04-2015, 04:03 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-04-2015 01:40 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-04-2015 08:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Me? I was a real piece of work before Jesus, and He's still working. I know that. But my marriage and children and relationships are on a base of God. Getting better all the time, like the Beatles sang...
I can really only speak for myself and offer some observations regarding my own family.

I'm an atheist, obviously.
My wife is too. My six year old said "god's not real" so that means she counts as an atheist, my 4 year old never talks of god so I'm pretty sure she is an atheist too.

My family is wonderful. We are pretty active, enjoy exercise, music, going for beach and bush walks. My kids are very fun loving and lively. They certainly have a zest for life. My wife is a friendly and smart lady who has a positive outlook on life and is admired by many friends.

So there you have it. A bunch of atheists enjoying life and this is based on the foundation that life is here and to be enjoyed.

You are clearly tortured and miserable because you don't know what real joy is. You're just fooling yourselves. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-04-2015, 04:12 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-04-2015 04:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are clearly tortured and miserable because you don't know what real joy is. You're just fooling yourselves. Drinking Beverage
Perhaps an analogy would the happiness of a domestic dog vs the liveliness of a wild dog. Sometimes perception of happiness isn't the complete picture.

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24-04-2015, 05:20 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2015 06:08 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-04-2015 08:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I've also had the displeasure of watching loved ones die in agony as well as the unredeemed state.

Goddam if you ain't the height of hypocrisy. According to your own doctrine, REDEMPTION IS NOT YOUR FUCKING CALL ASSHOLE. Putting judicial robes on top of your clown costume just makes you even more amusing. Please stay around so I can see what other tricks you do next. ... Goddam blasphemous false christian. Sooner or later God'll cut you down.




... it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks ...




There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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24-04-2015, 05:58 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2015 06:30 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-04-2015 08:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 01:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Let me guess,
With the atheist you saw shadows creep in from under the door, the windows iced over, a message appears on the window "We're coming for you", you heard demonic mutterings and heard clawing and scratching, the atheist scream, oh my god they've come for me, no, no get away, Ahhhhh, it burns!, they are clawing my flesh, Nooooooooooooooooo!
Everyone in the room flees and has nightmares for the next month.

With the Christian, you saw a bright light from above, a beconning warmth, some butterflies fluttering about, flowers blossomed, then the Christian claims, I see a light, and in the light I see grandmama, she is smiling, welcoming me, oh look, there is my long lost childhood friend, Oh and my baby that was still born, she has grown up now, she wants a hug, Oh this is so exciting, I going to the light, hello grandmama, hello my beautiful daughter..
Everyone in the room cheers and sheds tears of joy.

Not quite, Mister Bond.

What I've observed doing ministry in nursing homes and hospice centers is that born again patients are mentally together, and happy for a visit, and happy in general, even the ones whose family are long gone and who have not had regular visits for months, even years. God gives Christians a sound mind per 2 Timothy 1. These people are alert, sharp and want to tell you what they read in the Bible that morning that encouraged them...

I've also had the displeasure of watching loved ones die in agony as well as the unredeemed state.

I've also encountered (and some of them are my friends, but it takes patience) older skeptics, older, it seems, than many or most on this forum, and boy are they in trouble--not judgment of Hell--that's not what I mean. Rather I mean they are nasty old curs.

Take Christopher Hitchens--not his death--his life. What a towering intellect he was! What a keen and insightful mind! But not a nice man at all. One of his "hobbies" was having peers and faculty come over for dinner and to demonstrate his brilliance in logic and argumentation by reducing them to tears. Ayn Rand was the same way. She was famous for arguing through the night until her friends were no longer her friends. Again, Rand has so much to say and would likely reprove many skeptics today for being way too liberal in their economic and political worldview. But she was a nasty piece of work in some ways. Sad.

Me? I was a real piece of work before Jesus, and He's still working. I know that. But my marriage and children and relationships are on a base of God. Getting better all the time, like the Beatles sang...

Re "But my marriage and children and relationships are on a base of God."

The only tangible link you have with your hypothetical God is the Bible. If you genuinely base your life around the bible, you are a deluded, sad, pathetic and immoral individual.

What I suspect you mean is that you and your loved ones get some superficial comfort out of imagining the existence of your hypothetical God. That is a false comfort because it is not based on truth and facts, and will ultimately do you more harm than good.

Your posting here is not convincing anyone of anything... other than maybe yourself...it is merely your attempt to suppress your own cognitive dissonance.
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24-04-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(24-04-2015 08:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 01:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Let me guess,
With the atheist you saw shadows creep in from under the door, the windows iced over, a message appears on the window "We're coming for you", you heard demonic mutterings and heard clawing and scratching, the atheist scream, oh my god they've come for me, no, no get away, Ahhhhh, it burns!, they are clawing my flesh, Nooooooooooooooooo!
Everyone in the room flees and has nightmares for the next month.

With the Christian, you saw a bright light from above, a beconning warmth, some butterflies fluttering about, flowers blossomed, then the Christian claims, I see a light, and in the light I see grandmama, she is smiling, welcoming me, oh look, there is my long lost childhood friend, Oh and my baby that was still born, she has grown up now, she wants a hug, Oh this is so exciting, I going to the light, hello grandmama, hello my beautiful daughter..
Everyone in the room cheers and sheds tears of joy.

Not quite, Mister Bond.

What I've observed doing ministry in nursing homes and hospice centers is that born again patients are mentally together, and happy for a visit, and happy in general, even the ones whose family are long gone and who have not had regular visits for months, even years. God gives Christians a sound mind per 2 Timothy 1. These people are alert, sharp and want to tell you what they read in the Bible that morning that encouraged them...

I've also had the displeasure of watching loved ones die in agony as well as the unredeemed state.

I've also encountered (and some of them are my friends, but it takes patience) older skeptics, older, it seems, than many or most on this forum, and boy are they in trouble--not judgment of Hell--that's not what I mean. Rather I mean they are nasty old curs.

Take Christopher Hitchens--not his death--his life. What a towering intellect he was! What a keen and insightful mind! But not a nice man at all. One of his "hobbies" was having peers and faculty come over for dinner and to demonstrate his brilliance in logic and argumentation by reducing them to tears. Ayn Rand was the same way. She was famous for arguing through the night until her friends were no longer her friends. Again, Rand has so much to say and would likely reprove many skeptics today for being way too liberal in their economic and political worldview. But she was a nasty piece of work in some ways. Sad.

Me? I was a real piece of work before Jesus, and He's still working. I know that. But my marriage and children and relationships are on a base of God. Getting better all the time, like the Beatles sang...

Some Christians claim their beliefs will help them face death. I’ve looked after many Christians as they’re dying, many more than you, and they rarely talk about Jesus. More often than not, when people are dying, they discover how utterly hollow and disappointing Jesus’ empty promises really are.
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