Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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30-04-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(29-04-2015 09:16 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Is this a matter of opinion or is there a deeper reason behind it? Is it right because Jesus said it, or did Jesus say it because it is right?

Do you think that people can discover moral truths or is all moral truth mere opinion, either of God or of man?

If God's morality is unchanging, is slavery morally wrong? Is genocide? Do you stand behind every act and command attributed to God in the bible?

I for one am pretty sure that moral truths do exist, be they as they may be relative to subjective value statements. I'm pretty sure that secular morality is the only kind that can exist, even if a God exists. That is, things are moral or immoral independent of the opinion of God. He may be unerringly correct about what is moral or not, but his opinion of right and wrong would still not be what makes it right or wrong.

Do unto others is a right standard.

People are equipped to discover/affirm moral truths without God's intervention. Moral relativists are self-contradictory if they claim moral absolutes, however.

God's moral code is unchanging. I find American/British slavery disgusting. But not the indentured servitude described in the Bible.

I find genocide disgusting. The Jewish people, however, fought against peoples who were morally degenerate and further outnumbered them--many nations/tribes who had giants, iron chariots and weapons.

I stand behind each act and command of the Bible in terms of "Yes, God is right." I am neither obligated to perform every command in the Bible nor to protest current societal changes and laws.

If I were to agree with you that secular morality works/is effectual, would you agree with me that is completely subjective since it is rooted in the minds of changeable people, my original point?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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30-04-2015, 04:58 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-04-2015 12:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 09:16 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Is this a matter of opinion or is there a deeper reason behind it? Is it right because Jesus said it, or did Jesus say it because it is right?

Do you think that people can discover moral truths or is all moral truth mere opinion, either of God or of man?

If God's morality is unchanging, is slavery morally wrong? Is genocide? Do you stand behind every act and command attributed to God in the bible?

I for one am pretty sure that moral truths do exist, be they as they may be relative to subjective value statements. I'm pretty sure that secular morality is the only kind that can exist, even if a God exists. That is, things are moral or immoral independent of the opinion of God. He may be unerringly correct about what is moral or not, but his opinion of right and wrong would still not be what makes it right or wrong.

Do unto others is a right standard.

People are equipped to discover/affirm moral truths without God's intervention. Moral relativists are self-contradictory if they claim moral absolutes, however.

God's moral code is unchanging. I find American/British slavery disgusting. But not the indentured servitude described in the Bible.

I find genocide disgusting. The Jewish people, however, fought against peoples who were morally degenerate and further outnumbered them--many nations/tribes who had giants, iron chariots and weapons.

I stand behind each act and command of the Bible in terms of "Yes, God is right." I am neither obligated to perform every command in the Bible nor to protest current societal changes and laws.

If I were to agree with you that secular morality works/is effectual, would you agree with me that is completely subjective since it is rooted in the minds of changeable people, my original point?

Thus, it's okay if god says so.

So if god told a mother to murder her infant children by drowning them in a bathtub, would this be fine for you?
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30-04-2015, 05:01 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-04-2015 04:58 PM)Dusky Wrote:  Thus, it's okay if god says so.

So if god told a mother to murder her infant children by drowning them in a bathtub, would this be fine for you?

Isn't is interesting that nearly every time a parent kills their child because god said so it's later found out that the person is battling mental illness or has had a complete break?

I never heard voices telling me to kill my kids. So either god didn't want them dead or I wasn't crazy enough to hear his voice. Dodgy

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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30-04-2015, 05:25 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-04-2015 05:01 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(30-04-2015 04:58 PM)Dusky Wrote:  Thus, it's okay if god says so.

So if god told a mother to murder her infant children by drowning them in a bathtub, would this be fine for you?

Isn't is interesting that nearly every time a parent kills their child because god said so it's later found out that the person is battling mental illness or has had a complete break?

I never heard voices telling me to kill my kids. So either god didn't want them dead or I wasn't crazy enough to hear his voice. Dodgy

I entirely agree. It's nothing but mental illness.

My question to Q tho is, if he was certain, without a doubt, that god told a mother to drown the kid, would he view this is justified because god told her to do it?
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30-04-2015, 06:23 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-04-2015 05:25 PM)Dusky Wrote:  
(30-04-2015 05:01 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Isn't is interesting that nearly every time a parent kills their child because god said so it's later found out that the person is battling mental illness or has had a complete break?

I never heard voices telling me to kill my kids. So either god didn't want them dead or I wasn't crazy enough to hear his voice. Dodgy

I entirely agree. It's nothing but mental illness.

My question to Q tho is, if he was certain, without a doubt, that god told a mother to drown the kid, would he view this is justified because god told her to do it?

Qbert's going to go with whatever the bibble says. Because he has too. He can't back pedal now...at least not here.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

Are my Chakras on straight?
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30-04-2015, 07:14 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-04-2015 04:58 PM)Dusky Wrote:  
(30-04-2015 12:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Do unto others is a right standard.

People are equipped to discover/affirm moral truths without God's intervention. Moral relativists are self-contradictory if they claim moral absolutes, however.

God's moral code is unchanging. I find American/British slavery disgusting. But not the indentured servitude described in the Bible.

I find genocide disgusting. The Jewish people, however, fought against peoples who were morally degenerate and further outnumbered them--many nations/tribes who had giants, iron chariots and weapons.

I stand behind each act and command of the Bible in terms of "Yes, God is right." I am neither obligated to perform every command in the Bible nor to protest current societal changes and laws.

If I were to agree with you that secular morality works/is effectual, would you agree with me that is completely subjective since it is rooted in the minds of changeable people, my original point?

Thus, it's okay if god says so.

So if god told a mother to murder her infant children by drowning them in a bathtub, would this be fine for you?

After all he's ordered Moses to kill Isaac but rescinded it right when he was going to stab him. And other people have killed their kids because they claimed to hear a god speak to them.
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30-04-2015, 07:23 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-04-2015 12:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 09:16 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Is this a matter of opinion or is there a deeper reason behind it? Is it right because Jesus said it, or did Jesus say it because it is right?

Do you think that people can discover moral truths or is all moral truth mere opinion, either of God or of man?

If God's morality is unchanging, is slavery morally wrong? Is genocide? Do you stand behind every act and command attributed to God in the bible?

I for one am pretty sure that moral truths do exist, be they as they may be relative to subjective value statements. I'm pretty sure that secular morality is the only kind that can exist, even if a God exists. That is, things are moral or immoral independent of the opinion of God. He may be unerringly correct about what is moral or not, but his opinion of right and wrong would still not be what makes it right or wrong.

Do unto others is a right standard.

People are equipped to discover/affirm moral truths without God's intervention. Moral relativists are self-contradictory if they claim moral absolutes, however.

God's moral code is unchanging. I find American/British slavery disgusting. But not the indentured servitude described in the Bible.

I find genocide disgusting. The Jewish people, however, fought against peoples who were morally degenerate and further outnumbered them--many nations/tribes who had giants, iron chariots and weapons.

I stand behind each act and command of the Bible in terms of "Yes, God is right." I am neither obligated to perform every command in the Bible nor to protest current societal changes and laws.

If I were to agree with you that secular morality works/is effectual, would you agree with me that is completely subjective since it is rooted in the minds of changeable people, my original point?

"God's moral code is unchanging."

Q, you can't get away with claiming this.

God doesn't exist.

The fictional character in the babble is an evil, petty, primitive tyrant. "He" changes "his" mind so often about everything there is no consistent moral code.
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30-04-2015, 07:28 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-04-2015 12:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I find genocide disgusting. The Jewish people, however, fought against peoples who were morally degenerate and further outnumbered them--many nations/tribes who had giants, iron chariots and weapons.

Morally degenerate? Giants? Yeah, sure. Gonna need some actual evidence.

Actual evidence does not include Bible stories.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-04-2015, 08:00 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-04-2015 07:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-04-2015 12:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I find genocide disgusting. The Jewish people, however, fought against peoples who were morally degenerate and further outnumbered them--many nations/tribes who had giants, iron chariots and weapons.

Morally degenerate? Giants? Yeah, sure. Gonna need some actual evidence.

Actual evidence does not include Bible stories.

So....genocide is disgusting....but it's ok to kill a crowd if
- one or more of them are oversized
- you find their "morals" to be lacking
- or they outnumber you

Well that makes sense.Facepalm
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30-04-2015, 08:58 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Good lord, Q Cunt! Get. A. Job.

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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