Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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06-05-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-05-2015 12:47 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 08:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Bible - love your neighbor as if they were your own person

Expect if they don't believe you when you tell them about god. Or have something you want, like land, women, or power.
Battles from Abraham to Israel’s Conquest

Abraham’s 318 against the Armies of Shinar (Babylon) – Genesis 14
Pharaoh Pursues the Israelites in Exodus – Exodus 14
The Israelites Fight Back against the Amalekites – Exodus 17:8-16
Israel Opposes the Midianites and Moabites – Numbers 31:1-11 (Matt. 19:14)
Israel’s Rules of War – Deuteronomy 20 (Exo. 23:24, Lev. 18:21-24, 19:24, 20:2-3, Deut. 18:9-14)
Israel Marches on the City of Jericho – Joshua 6
Israel’s Struggle with the City of AI – Joshua 7-8
Joshua Leads Israel against the 5 Amorite Kings – Joshua 10 (Deut. 9:5)
King Jabin of Hazor with a Great Army Opposes Joshua and Israel – Joshua 11
Israel’s Continuing Conquests – Judges 1:1-11
Ehud Leads Israel against the Moabites – Judges 3:12-30
Barak Leads Naphtali and Zebulun against Sisera, the Commander of Canaan – Judges 4
Gideon’s 300 Rise Up against the Midianites – Judges 7-8:21
Israel Wars with Its Own Tribe of Benjamin – Judges 19-20

Battles of the Kingdom

The Philistines Capture the Ark of Covenant – 1 Samuel 4:1-11
Samuel Leads Israel to Repent and Repel the Philistines – 1 Samuel 7
Saul Leads Israel to Save the City of Jabesh Gilead – 1 Samuel 11
The Battle at Michmash – 1 Samuel 13:16-14:23 (14:47-48)
Saul Leads Israel against the Amalekites – 1 Samuel 15:1-9 (15:19, 33)
The Battle of Sochoh, David verses Goliath – 1 Samuel 17
David Saves the City of Keilah and Out Maneuvers King Saul – 1 Samuel 23 (21:1-15, 22:1-5)
Saul’s Pursuit of David in the En Gedi – 1 Samuel 24
David’s Strategic Movements -1 Samuel 26-27
David Saves the City of Ziklag – 1 Samuel 30
King Saul’s Final Battle – 1 Samuel 31
War Between David’s Judah and Ishbosheth’s Israel – 2 Samuel 2-4
King David’s Conquest Establishes Jerusalem – 2 Samuel 5
David’s Mighty Men and Special Training – 1 Chron. 11:10-25, 12:1-2, 8
King David’s Great Conquests – 2 Samuel 8 (2 Chron. 18)
The Ammonite Rebellion – 2 Samuel 10
Absalom’s Rebellion – 2 Samuel 18 (2 Sam. 13-17)
Sheba’s Rebellion – 2 Samuel 20
King David Avenges the Gibeonites – 2 Samuel 21 (1 Chron. 29:26-30)

Battles of the Divided Kingdoms, Judah and Israel

Israel’s King Ambushes Judah – 2 Chronicles 13
Ethiopia’s Army, Greater than One Million, Attacks Judah – 2 Chronicles 14
King Jehoshaphat’s Army of Judah Worships and Sings in the Face of Battle – 2 Chronicles 20
King Ahab of Israel’s Battles with Syria – 1 Kings 20, 22
Israel and Judah Joined Together to Defeat the Moabites – 2 Kings 3
The Syrian Army Come to Conquer Israel including Elisha – 2 Kings 6:8-7:20
Edom Revolts against King Jehoram of Judah – 2 Chronicles 21
King Amaziah of Judah Wars against Edom – 2 Chronicles 25:1-16
King Amaziah Stirs Up Israel to Battle – 2 Chronicles 25:17-24
King Uzziah of Judah Fights the Philistines – 2 Chronicles 26:1-15
Judah is Weakened by Battles – 2 Chronicles 28
The Assyrian Invasion – 2 Kings 18-19 (2 Chron. 32:20-21)
King Josiah Goes Out to War against Pharaoh Necho – 2 Chronicles 35:20-27 (2 Kings 23:29-30)
The Babylonian Captivity of Judah – 2 Kings 25

Christian Battles

The Destruction of Jerusalem – Luke 19:41-44, 21:5-24, (Matt. 24, Mark 13)
The Christian War – John 18:36, 2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (Rom. 13:12, Eph. 6:11-18)
The War in Heaven between Michael and Satan – Revelation 12:1-17 (Rev. 11:2)
The Defeat of the Beast in the Battle of Armageddon – Revelation 19:11-21 (16:12-16)
The Last Victory – Revelation 20:1-15


(06-05-2015 08:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  do not listen to hearsay but accept two or three witnesses,
Except for Jesus...he told me he never lies so he's legit.

(06-05-2015 08:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  execute pedophiles,
Just not Rapists. Make them Marry their Victims.

And what passage dose it say this part about pedophiles?

All I could find was the one where the purist guy was offering up his two virgin daughters to a crowed of men. Who then after gets drunk himself, and has sex with them.

(06-05-2015 08:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  honor your parents,
Because they will FUCKING KILL YOU if you don't.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death.

(06-05-2015 08:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  pay your debts in full,
Because if you don't we will ether kill you, or have your childrens, children, children. pay it off.

(06-05-2015 08:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  release indentured persons once their contract is fulfilled,
Slave owner "What do you mean you can't leave?

Exodus 21:7-11
If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He does not have authority to sell her to a foreign people because of his unfairness to her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights. If he will not do these three things for her, then she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

Exodus 21:2-6
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment. If he comes alone, he shall go out alone; if he is the husband of a wife, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,’ then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.

Deuteronomy 15; 12-5
If your kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him free. When you set him free, you shall not send him away empty-handed. You shall furnish him liberally from your flock and from your threshing floor and from your wine vat; you shall give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you. You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you this today.



(06-05-2015 08:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  take a day off to rest rather than work all the time,

Oh man good thing this book told me to relax. I wouldn't have remembered.

(06-05-2015 08:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  put family above career and fiscal success
Because who needs income?

How can I be accused of cherry picking, without that being shared around, when someone posts every Bible battle with no reference as to who attacked whom and so forth? You do know the Israelites were attacked in the desert for the crime of asking to pass through a space on their WAY to Canaan, right?

Additionally, I'd challenge you in concepts like just war.

Additionally, I don't appreciate glib comments like "Glad the Bible told me to rest or I shan't have known to do so". Without the scriptures, YOU would be working seven days right now! Why not show you oppose the Bible by going to work Saturday and Sunday this week?

I've seen the rest of your "moral arguments" many times, and I apologize if this sounds mean, but you're 100% incorrect. You are 1) imposing your presentist views on the ANE cultures, cultures surrounding Israel that were FAR more brutal than anything you've (mis) interpreted from the Bible and 2) I'd be happy to dissect each of these objections again but 3) you have no standards for your morality besides your "conscience" so why should I?

Cherry picking? Do you have ANYTHING laudable to say about any moral teaching of the Bible?! I know Chas likes to cry about "love your neighbor as yourself" not being unique to the Bible, when the golden rule in the form of LOVE your neighbor as YOURSELF is in both testaments uniquely before any other statement was made by any other culture, but how about that "Cast the first stone teaching" of Jesus? Wasn't that a hoot?

Please.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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06-05-2015, 02:41 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Quote:do not listen to hearsay but accept two or three witnesses,

Quote:Except for Jesus...he told me he never lies so he's legit.

No. He told us 1) He's God so He's legit and the Father was his second witness and 2) He told us His two proffered witnesses were his awesome words and his miracles. Do you read the Bible when you quote it to me or just atheist sites that trim it for you?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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06-05-2015, 03:05 PM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2015 03:21 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-05-2015 08:01 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 02:38 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "Peter" ain't that Peter. He was no eyewitness. Look it up.

There was no "bible" until the fourth century. "Peter" wrote in the first century. That should get you thinking.

Mark, I find that the councils that met affirmed what everyone knew beforehand, what was already considered apocrypha and what was canon. They were meeting to confront heresy and affirming the truths of the scriptures helped define orthodoxy. Most of the NT was shared as quotations in letters between church leaders - letters extant all before the 2nd century had ended.

"Peter" can be anyone you like in this case. It could be me, writing now, to say that hearing God's voice or some religious experience, even encountering the risen Jesus in person, is less compelling than the prophecies fulfilled.

"Mark, I find that the councils that met affirmed what everyone knew beforehand, what was already considered apocrypha and what was canon."

No. You clearly know very little about the real history. Let me educate you.


The Church Fathers, who, over a period of roughly 300 years, compiled the New Testament canon, wrote volumes attacking their opposition and arguing with their critics, so they would have recorded solid facts about the historicity of Jesus to bolster the credibility of their books if they had them. They did not because they could not.

These Church Fathers wrote volumes about the early Church’s followers and martyrs, but there is one thing conspicuously absent from their writings; bona-fide details about a flesh and blood historical Jesus.

Nowhere in the New Testament is there an explanation to vouch for the authenticity of any of the Jesus accounts that could convince a truly objective historian. Outside the Bible, some Church fathers, bishops, and academics pass fleeting commentary in an attempt to justify an historical Jesus. Some of this commentary has survived, yet it was written 100 or more years after Yeshua’s death, is very sparse, piecemeal, and unfortunately always raises more questions than it answers.

There was much disagreement amongst various early Christian groups about what was or was not the word of God, and it took 350 years after Jesus’ death for the canon to be definitively decided.

The criteria used to choose the canon were unscholarly and never strictly applied. The key case for inclusion in the canon was that the scripts were already popular in particular parishes. This standard is obviously flawed, as popularity has little to do with historical truth. Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter are popular books, but no one thinks they are records of real history just because they are well liked.

The accounts of Christians who were not card carriers in conformist churches were ignored. The Gnostics, Marcionites and numerous other Christian groups had writings that were labeled as heretical. Catholics took what they thought was useful from them, and then destroyed nearly all their writings. To destroy literature is not the conduct of people interested in the truth, but the behavior of empire builders.

There are falsely signed letters throughout the Bible; rarely in the writings of antiquity are the true identities of so many authors so hidden from the reader. Some of Paul’s epistles are the only works for which we know the author’s real identity, and even then his writings have been interfered with by unknown others. The real identities of the authors were rarely recorded, possibly because to do so would have exposed how fabricated the writings were. Anonymous authors meant answers to many difficult questions did not have to be given. It was easier to foster faith than to discuss facts.
The Church Fathers either presumed or pretended that the Gospels were true, but could not prove it. This leaves a massive hole in Christianity’s legitimacy.

The Church Fathers were the more educated members of the early Christian churches. Yet they were often narrow-minded, superstitious, and dishonest, and a few of them even admitted their dishonesty. Some of them forged documents. They repeatedly dis- played very little critical faculty; no story was too silly, no falsehood too glaring, no argument too weak to prevent them teaching it with full confidence of its truth. Time and again the Church Fathers thought it was permissible, and even commendable, to assert falsehoods for the sake of selling faith. It could be said that they were the tabloid journalists of their day.

St Gregory, commenting in the mid fourth century, wrote
“A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire. Our forefathers and doctors have often said not what they thought, but what circumstances and necessity dictated.” (St. Gregory, from Jerome’s letter 52 to Nepotian.230)

Yet it is on the Church Fathers’ testimonies that today’s Christian assumes that the Gospels are truthful.

It is obvious that these Church Fathers, and no doubt others with similar attitudes, would have edited and interpolated the New Testament. If you can claim angels have sex with women, you can promote a virgin birth. If you can say you saw a dead corpse move, why not have an evil spirit enter a herd of pigs? If you can write about men with one eye in their foreheads, you have no reservations about a Jesus walking on water. If you are willing to use falsehood as medicine, then you are pleased to have Jesus rise from the dead. I could go on and on.

Some of these men, or their colleagues, altered quotations from the Septuagint to create phony prophesies concerning Jesus. Someone added Jesus’ resurrection to the Gospel of Mark. Someone attributed the authorship of the Gospels to Jesus’ apostles. Someone probably inserted into Matthew’s Gospel that Jesus wanted to start a new Church with Peter at its head. Someone probably inserted Jesus’ name into Paul’s writings. Some anonymous Christians wrote letters in Paul’s name. Someone wrote Acts to try to link Yeshua’s disciples with Paul’s theology. Numerous other people incorporated traditions from pagan cults into the new one.

There are countless other examples of the early Christians’ dishonesty.

There was a corrupt intellectual culture in the early Christian church.

There are no legitimate excuses for this. Fiction touted as truth, uncritical scholarship, and appeals for faith are unacceptable to an educated, modern audience.

These Church Fathers were using the type of arguments that they knew worked, so as to convince groups of mainly common people about the supposed truth of superstitious nonsense.

The human family has always had real thinkers, people who were clearly interested in the truth. Consider men such as Plato, Plutarch, Celsus, Cicero, Philo, Seutonius, Tacitus and others, who employed high standards of integrity and scholarship. Their writings are believable, consistent and still read well. These Church Fathers were not in this group. Celsus wrote

“It is clear to me that the writings of the Christians are a lie, and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this mon- strous fiction: I have even heard that some of your interpreters, as if they had just come out of a tavern, are onto the inconsistencies and, pen in hand, alter the originals writings, three, four and several more times over in order to be able to deny the contradictions in the face of criticism.” (Celsus, 178 CE231).

None of the church fathers were honest enough to publicly admit that
their faith was formed on a foundation of manufactured nonsense.

How could anyone today be convinced of the divinity, the miracles, or the teachings of Jesus after considering what these Church Fathers had to contend?

Christianity is not unique in this regard. Jewish and Islamic dogma is also manufactured nonsense. Consider how many of today’s Christians quite readily appreciate how childish, borrowed, concocted and unhistorical the Islamic faith is, yet fail to see similar parallels in their own religion.

It seems obvious why the Church Fathers concocted lies and so vehemently denigrated other commentators such as the Gnostics, Marcion and Celsus. Promoting their version of the dogma fortified their own power and status, and that of the institutions they represented.

These Church Fathers were bishops buttressing their own positions and their Church’s coffers. They were pompous priests who perched themselves in high places in pursuit of power, money and prestige.

Elders or presbyters were lower than the bishop; deacons or ser- vants were lower than the elders, and the common plebs were at the bottom of the pile. These commoners were poorly equipped to detect dishonesty, or to tell the difference between truth and fiction. Bishops typically had little or no respect for them. Bishops had a patronizing attitude towards the common people; the people were to be fooled and manipulated for the Church’s benefit. The clergy regularly referred to the public as “rabble” or “fools” or “the multitudes” or the “crowd,” yet it was the commoners who put cash in their collections.

The Church Fathers were advocating an earthly monarchy with a bishop on the throne. Paul had said much the same thing many years earlier, with himself as an ultimate authority, the equivalent of a king. The Vatican still runs a monarchy today, with the pope as God’s mouthpiece, which is one of the reasons why the men in today’s Vatican have become so unpopular amongst thinking people.

It is sad, wrong and ironic that generations of ordinary, trusting Christians have wasted their time looking for truth and meaning in the New Testament, hoping to be enlightened, when the characters who created it were so cavalier, so casual with the truth. Churches today still insist that people believe that the Bible was divinely inspired, yet they have no facts to back this assertion up. By forcing faith on children and adults too busy to carefully consider it, priests and preachers have ruled over human reason to benefit themselves at the expense of the little people who sit in pews and put money on plates.

The world has moved on, people are better informed, more critical, and much better educated. Modern people, who genuinely care about the health and happiness of our fellow men, and particularly the children, might be best served by not letting these writings and those who advocate them have an undeserved authority. It is time bibliolatry and theology were replaced with open-mindedness, pragmatic thought, and genuine empathy. The era in which uninformed people blindly believe Christian dogma and bow down to those promoting it should now be over.


References:
Besant, A. “The Basis Of Morality.” Theosophical Publishing House. India
Bethune, George “The Grounds of Christianity Examined by Comparing The New Testament with the Old” (http://www.gutenberg. org/cache/epub/15968/pg15968.html)
http://www.infidels.org/library/historic...h_wheless/ forgery_in_christianity/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYgEsfxyB4
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/r...r/NTcanon. html
http://www.orthodox.net/faq/canon.htm http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/jhcjp.htm
http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/pos...ttp://www. wayoflife.org/index_files/church_fathers_a_door_to_room.html
http://www.cogwriter.com/easter.htm
http://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2005/0...christian- apocrypha-and-the-historiography-of-early-christianity-nt-apocry- pha-6/
http://www.drazin.com/chap1.htm
http://allanturner.com/magazine/archives...gyLaity04. html
http://acurseonalltheirhouses.net/2011/11/11/how- christianity-was-invented/
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/dark-age.htm http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/064...nFraud.php http://godlessgeeks.com/JesusExist.htm http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...ion/watch/ http://www.angelfire.com/band/kissed/fraud.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0zWbL8Uqfw
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06-05-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-05-2015 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  How can I be accused of cherry picking, without that being shared around, when someone posts every Bible battle with no reference as to who attacked whom and so forth?

The reason you are accused of cherry picking is because it's what you do. This isn't the first thread you've posted on. I've read many of your posts. In one post you will say "I appall Genocide". And in the next post say how god had to kill all those people because he loved them. I've seen how you love hitting the bees nest. I get it, I've done it myself. And If you check what I wrote again you will see Next to the battles are bible passages so that you can check for yourself. Or since you seem to have a endless wealth of knowledge on the bible you could just think back to the passage and know.

The reason i put every bible battle was because you had stated that the bible teaches loving your neighbor. War is not love. And i guarantee you these weren't fights were the far end of the planet. They were bands and tribes in neighboring settlements. Love your neighbor... so long as they believe the same thing as you.

I'll respond to the rest when I have more time.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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06-05-2015, 04:07 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-05-2015 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 12:47 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Expect if they don't believe you when you tell them about god. Or have something you want, like land, women, or power.
Battles from Abraham to Israel’s Conquest

Abraham’s 318 against the Armies of Shinar (Babylon) – Genesis 14
Pharaoh Pursues the Israelites in Exodus – Exodus 14
The Israelites Fight Back against the Amalekites – Exodus 17:8-16
Israel Opposes the Midianites and Moabites – Numbers 31:1-11 (Matt. 19:14)
Israel’s Rules of War – Deuteronomy 20 (Exo. 23:24, Lev. 18:21-24, 19:24, 20:2-3, Deut. 18:9-14)
Israel Marches on the City of Jericho – Joshua 6
Israel’s Struggle with the City of AI – Joshua 7-8
Joshua Leads Israel against the 5 Amorite Kings – Joshua 10 (Deut. 9:5)
King Jabin of Hazor with a Great Army Opposes Joshua and Israel – Joshua 11
Israel’s Continuing Conquests – Judges 1:1-11
Ehud Leads Israel against the Moabites – Judges 3:12-30
Barak Leads Naphtali and Zebulun against Sisera, the Commander of Canaan – Judges 4
Gideon’s 300 Rise Up against the Midianites – Judges 7-8:21
Israel Wars with Its Own Tribe of Benjamin – Judges 19-20

Battles of the Kingdom

The Philistines Capture the Ark of Covenant – 1 Samuel 4:1-11
Samuel Leads Israel to Repent and Repel the Philistines – 1 Samuel 7
Saul Leads Israel to Save the City of Jabesh Gilead – 1 Samuel 11
The Battle at Michmash – 1 Samuel 13:16-14:23 (14:47-48)
Saul Leads Israel against the Amalekites – 1 Samuel 15:1-9 (15:19, 33)
The Battle of Sochoh, David verses Goliath – 1 Samuel 17
David Saves the City of Keilah and Out Maneuvers King Saul – 1 Samuel 23 (21:1-15, 22:1-5)
Saul’s Pursuit of David in the En Gedi – 1 Samuel 24
David’s Strategic Movements -1 Samuel 26-27
David Saves the City of Ziklag – 1 Samuel 30
King Saul’s Final Battle – 1 Samuel 31
War Between David’s Judah and Ishbosheth’s Israel – 2 Samuel 2-4
King David’s Conquest Establishes Jerusalem – 2 Samuel 5
David’s Mighty Men and Special Training – 1 Chron. 11:10-25, 12:1-2, 8
King David’s Great Conquests – 2 Samuel 8 (2 Chron. 18)
The Ammonite Rebellion – 2 Samuel 10
Absalom’s Rebellion – 2 Samuel 18 (2 Sam. 13-17)
Sheba’s Rebellion – 2 Samuel 20
King David Avenges the Gibeonites – 2 Samuel 21 (1 Chron. 29:26-30)

Battles of the Divided Kingdoms, Judah and Israel

Israel’s King Ambushes Judah – 2 Chronicles 13
Ethiopia’s Army, Greater than One Million, Attacks Judah – 2 Chronicles 14
King Jehoshaphat’s Army of Judah Worships and Sings in the Face of Battle – 2 Chronicles 20
King Ahab of Israel’s Battles with Syria – 1 Kings 20, 22
Israel and Judah Joined Together to Defeat the Moabites – 2 Kings 3
The Syrian Army Come to Conquer Israel including Elisha – 2 Kings 6:8-7:20
Edom Revolts against King Jehoram of Judah – 2 Chronicles 21
King Amaziah of Judah Wars against Edom – 2 Chronicles 25:1-16
King Amaziah Stirs Up Israel to Battle – 2 Chronicles 25:17-24
King Uzziah of Judah Fights the Philistines – 2 Chronicles 26:1-15
Judah is Weakened by Battles – 2 Chronicles 28
The Assyrian Invasion – 2 Kings 18-19 (2 Chron. 32:20-21)
King Josiah Goes Out to War against Pharaoh Necho – 2 Chronicles 35:20-27 (2 Kings 23:29-30)
The Babylonian Captivity of Judah – 2 Kings 25

Christian Battles

The Destruction of Jerusalem – Luke 19:41-44, 21:5-24, (Matt. 24, Mark 13)
The Christian War – John 18:36, 2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (Rom. 13:12, Eph. 6:11-18)
The War in Heaven between Michael and Satan – Revelation 12:1-17 (Rev. 11:2)
The Defeat of the Beast in the Battle of Armageddon – Revelation 19:11-21 (16:12-16)
The Last Victory – Revelation 20:1-15


Except for Jesus...he told me he never lies so he's legit.

Just not Rapists. Make them Marry their Victims.

And what passage dose it say this part about pedophiles?

All I could find was the one where the purist guy was offering up his two virgin daughters to a crowed of men. Who then after gets drunk himself, and has sex with them.

Because they will FUCKING KILL YOU if you don't.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death.

Because if you don't we will ether kill you, or have your childrens, children, children. pay it off.

Slave owner "What do you mean you can't leave?

Exodus 21:7-11
If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He does not have authority to sell her to a foreign people because of his unfairness to her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights. If he will not do these three things for her, then she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

Exodus 21:2-6
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment. If he comes alone, he shall go out alone; if he is the husband of a wife, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,’ then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.

Deuteronomy 15; 12-5
If your kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, is sold to you, then he shall serve you six years, but in the seventh year you shall set him free. When you set him free, you shall not send him away empty-handed. You shall furnish him liberally from your flock and from your threshing floor and from your wine vat; you shall give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you. You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God redeemed you; therefore I command you this today.




Oh man good thing this book told me to relax. I wouldn't have remembered.

Because who needs income?

How can I be accused of cherry picking, without that being shared around, when someone posts every Bible battle with no reference as to who attacked whom and so forth? You do know the Israelites were attacked in the desert for the crime of asking to pass through a space on their WAY to Canaan, right?

Additionally, I'd challenge you in concepts like just war.

Additionally, I don't appreciate glib comments like "Glad the Bible told me to rest or I shan't have known to do so". Without the scriptures, YOU would be working seven days right now! Why not show you oppose the Bible by going to work Saturday and Sunday this week?

I've seen the rest of your "moral arguments" many times, and I apologize if this sounds mean, but you're 100% incorrect. You are 1) imposing your presentist views on the ANE cultures, cultures surrounding Israel that were FAR more brutal than anything you've (mis) interpreted from the Bible and 2) I'd be happy to dissect each of these objections again but 3) you have no standards for your morality besides your "conscience" so why should I?

Cherry picking? Do you have ANYTHING laudable to say about any moral teaching of the Bible?! I know Chas likes to cry about "love your neighbor as yourself" not being unique to the Bible, when the golden rule in the form of LOVE your neighbor as YOURSELF is in both testaments uniquely before any other statement was made by any other culture, but how about that "Cast the first stone teaching" of Jesus? Wasn't that a hoot?

Please.

If other people cherry pick, that doesn't negate the issue of you doing it. Your arguments would still depend on you arguing any war is just and defending culture for life is a just action which is a context of the bible.

Sure, there is laudable things the bible has. some pretty obvious stuff that Egyptians and Babylonians, as well as Chinese traditions had already figured out by the time of it's creation. What's honorable about "love thy neighbor?" You realize that's limited right and a reason why it was/still can be seen as justification against those other "brutal" cultures like Canaanites. While other Hindu/Buddhist ideas already at the time were spreading ideas of have compassion for all things because we are all equal. Not marking a distinction that causes strive to grow.

There is no reason for the actions of the bible for their lessons to other people to have existed. If god wanted to make it all up and spread that information to all of his creation he could and would of elevated much suffering in doing so to the same results.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-05-2015, 06:56 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-05-2015 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Additionally, I'd challenge you in concepts like just war.
Challenge accepted.

(06-05-2015 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Additionally, I don't appreciate glib comments like "Glad the Bible told me to rest or I shan't have known to do so". Without the scriptures, YOU would be working seven days right now! Why not show you oppose the Bible by going to work Saturday and Sunday this week?
Frankly, good sir. Sarcasm is one of my favorite forms of humor. If you don't get it I don't care.

If we truely followed the scriptures. We would be working 6 - 7 days. Only the sabith is for rest. The weekend has only been around for maybe 100 years. Thanks for the Industrial Revolution in the late 1800's the two day weekend began to take form. So that credit can't go to the bible it goes to Henry Ford. And I have and do work Saturday and Sundays. At one point in my early life i didn't take a day off. I worked 3 jobs and attended college. If YOU truly followed YOUR scripture this is what the rule is.

Exodus 20:10
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, bo thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates.

Exodus 35:2
Six days shall work be don, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

So what qualifies as work? What if you had yard "work". Dose mowing the lawn count? Maybe your neighbor need a hand building a deck? I know in isreal pushing a button could count as work.

Nope, Sorry Joe got to keep the sabbath holy. Otherwise people can kill me.

(06-05-2015 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I've seen the rest of your "moral arguments" many times, and I apologize if this sounds mean, but you're 100% incorrect. You are 1) imposing your presentist views on the ANE cultures, cultures surrounding Israel that were FAR more brutal than anything you've (mis) interpreted from the Bible and 2) I'd be happy to dissect each of these objections again but 3) you have no standards for your morality besides your "conscience" so why should I?
Wow 100%! Not even a .01 room for error.

1) Of course I'm applying present views! Why would I want to apply archaic out of date views? I don't do animal sacrifices. I don't own another person, nor would i feel that i have the right to beat them if i did. Watch people kill each other for sport is not my idea of fun.

I well aware of how hard a brutal life was and is in many parts of the world. But i'm not making a clam that an all powerful being is defending certain ones. Just Look at Israel and Palestine. Hundreds of years at war. Wasn't the Jews suppose to be the chosen people?

2) Dissect away. I could us the practice.

3)How do you know I don't have any standards for my Morality? It's a clam you can't back up. How do you know I don't set my moral compass to the show Full House?

You don't know anything about my sexual exploits.
You know nothing of my personal life.
And you know nothing of my past.

Name me one moral act that a religious person can do that an atheist can not.

(06-05-2015 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Do you have ANYTHING laudable to say about any moral teaching of the Bible?!
Morality is subjective. It changes depends on culture, circumstance and person. There is no one easy answer to subject of morality. We are social creatures, we want to be accepted in a group. So we'll fit our morality to meet what we feel that group would accept. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes wrong. That is why people fall into cults.

So the best response i could give you would be. I view the bibles morality in the same way i view the Bhagavad Gita, the Qur'an, or Dianetics. I don't need it. I feel my compass is better.

Your doing the same thing. Your picking the parts you feel match your morality, and your using this book to try to legitimize your view.

(06-05-2015 02:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I know Chas likes to cry about "love your neighbor as yourself" not being unique to the Bible, when the golden rule in the form of LOVE your neighbor as YOURSELF is in both testaments uniquely before any other statement was made by any other culture, but how about that "Cast the first stone teaching" of Jesus? Wasn't that a hoot?

Please.
Jesus also said.

Matthew 10:33-37
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his farther, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son of daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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06-05-2015, 07:22 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-05-2015 02:41 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
Quote:do not listen to hearsay but accept two or three witnesses,

Quote:Except for Jesus...he told me he never lies so he's legit.

No. He told us 1) He's God so He's legit and the Father was his second witness and 2) He told us His two proffered witnesses were his awesome words and his miracles.

Case in point.Laughat

Jesus told us he was God. So he doesn't need any witnesses because he's thre people.

He also said he did a bunch of cool tricks. And these things could never be redone. And people would never be fooled. Because what people see is 100% true all the time.
Like walking on water.




Like turning water to wine.




Healing the sick




(06-05-2015 02:41 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Do you read the Bible when you quote it to me or just atheist sites that trim it for you?

Do you read the bible after I quote it? Or are you just refusing to believe it because it not what you want to hear?

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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06-05-2015, 08:36 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Goddamnit, Q Cunt, don't you have a job yet?

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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07-05-2015, 01:00 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Mark,

Is it suspect that the "early" fathers, 300 years after didn't add details of Christ's earthly life, or was it that they respected the gospels and sought to not add to them, which incidentally undermines the prevalent views regarding the councils?

Further, I'm not missing anything. I've read apocrypha. I have no concerns in that regard.

What is your evidence regarding falsely signed letters throughout the Bible--by which I mean the 66 books of canon? Do you have textual, anecdotal or historical evidence?

Quote:The Gnostics, Marcionites and numerous other Christian groups had writings that were labeled as heretical.

And? Much of the NT was written to refute gnostic views on salvation and other matters, so the councils were consistent with orthodoxy. And Marcion rejected the OT, but the councils met, as I've mentioned, and rejected intertestamental apocrypha, as their Jewish brethren rejected them, too. That is why the same 39 books are in Jewish and Christian canons.

You also mentioned that the fathers would make insertions into the scriptures. Textual evidence for this?

Quote:“It is clear to me that the writings of the Christians are a lie, and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this mon- strous fiction: I have even heard that some of your interpreters, as if they had just come out of a tavern, are onto the inconsistencies and, pen in hand, alter the originals writings, three, four and several more times over in order to be able to deny the contradictions in the face of criticism.” (Celsus, 178 CE231).

So, are you saying Celsus would have felt at home as a TTA contributor or did Celsus have some eyewitness or textual evidence of same? There must be 80 million webpages on the authenticity of the NT as dated before Celsus's time. And with Christianity already proliferating in his day, I wonder if he had an agenda? Perhaps if I believe Paul was a Roman conspiracy, he was quelling the conspiracy?

Quote:Christianity is not unique in this regard. Jewish and Islamic dogma is also manufactured nonsense. Consider how many of today’s Christians quite readily appreciate how childish, borrowed, concocted and unhistorical the Islamic faith is, yet fail to see similar parallels in their own religion.

I see the parallels. Muhammed stole and conflated OT and NT stories, badly. And? In a court of law, the burden of proof would be on the man "writing" his "revelation" to disprove parts of the original, six centuries after.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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07-05-2015, 01:00 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-05-2015 08:36 PM)claywise Wrote:  Goddamnit, Q Cunt, don't you have a job yet?

I have several jobs I do, paid and unpaid, to benefit my family and others. Where do you work?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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