Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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21-05-2015, 09:29 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(20-05-2015 09:00 AM)kim Wrote:  Uh, as long as we're all being pedantic here ... there is no such thing as "more than accurately"; something is either accurate or it is not. Perhaps Q Bee, you feel the need to defend a bit of prosaic literature that is open to interpretation ... ?

I'm a pedant, and I don't mind your doing the same for sake of accuracy, no pun intended. If I go home and say, "a TTA member questioned my use of the word "accurate" in context" that would be an accurate statement.

But hundreds of copyists working over centuries with an unbroken tradition, that they would count words and passages, even letters transcribed, as they went along, and then would burn ANY minute errors is more than accurate, it is precise in the way we use accurate and precise in conversation - even though both words really mean "without error".

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21-05-2015, 11:41 AM (This post was last modified: 21-05-2015 11:48 AM by kim.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Fair enough, but language and the meaning of words change and evolve through time and geography. When discussing the accuracy of words, which might change in meaning quite quickly from place to place ... precision and/or accuracy may really be a moot point. Shy

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22-05-2015, 04:47 AM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2015 05:07 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(20-05-2015 08:18 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(19-05-2015 03:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "James, Jesus's brother, says nothing of what?"

Nothing about your Jeebus. No virgin birth, no miracles, no parables, no crucifixion, no resurrection. Look it up. James knew none of this because he wrote before the gospels, so the Jesus story hadn't been created yet.

James and Jesus were sons of a carpenter. Without any gospels yet, and without any miracles at all, please tell us why this man wrote his epistle.

Thanks.

Read it ( James' epistle) and the meaning is clear. It is only about five pages long. The author was telling his fellow Jews how to be good Jews.
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22-05-2015, 05:05 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(20-05-2015 08:22 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  [quotes]They were experts in judicial procedures, helpful in the enforcement of Jewish law and custom...

Quote:...some lower-level scribes who served the villages, making contracts and documents

"The Jewish people were exceptional for recording what they believed scripture..."

Maybe so. You do realise, I hope, that the gospels were never thought of as "scripture" by Jews?

The gospels were only considered to be "scripture" ( by some gentiles) at the very earliest, in the late second century...
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22-05-2015, 08:44 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-05-2015 05:05 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 08:22 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  [quotes]They were experts in judicial procedures, helpful in the enforcement of Jewish law and custom...

Quote:...some lower-level scribes who served the villages, making contracts and documents

"The Jewish people were exceptional for recording what they believed scripture..."

Maybe so. You do realise, I hope, that the gospels were never thought of as "scripture" by Jews?

The gospels were only considered to be "scripture" ( by some gentiles) at the very earliest, in the late second century...

That's true. It's akin to uh ... Jews didn't (don't) accept Jesus as 'The Messiah'. For them it was like, 'Oh sure, he was probably a righteous dude but, he's no Big Kahuna Messiah. In fact, that kind of shit just stirs up trouble with everyone. And we sure don't need the Romans thinking we can't handle this shit so ... nothing to see here people, move along.".

Jesus was a troll. The Bible and 'scripture' is just leftover forum squabbling. Drinking Beverage

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22-05-2015, 09:52 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-05-2015 04:47 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 08:18 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  James and Jesus were sons of a carpenter. Without any gospels yet, and without any miracles at all, please tell us why this man wrote his epistle.

Thanks.

Read it ( James' epistle) and the meaning is clear. It is only about five pages long. The author was telling his fellow Jews how to be good Jews.

No, sorry. BB is certain "salvation" isn't an OT concept. "What good my brethren... can such faith save him?"

You've said Paul made up a new faith (and somehow, therefore, as a Roman conspirator, Paul declares all foods clean but says Gentiles are unclean) and now we have James making up the new Christian faith?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-05-2015, 09:52 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-05-2015 05:05 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 08:22 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  [quotes]They were experts in judicial procedures, helpful in the enforcement of Jewish law and custom...

Quote:...some lower-level scribes who served the villages, making contracts and documents

"The Jewish people were exceptional for recording what they believed scripture..."

Maybe so. You do realise, I hope, that the gospels were never thought of as "scripture" by Jews?

The gospels were only considered to be "scripture" ( by some gentiles) at the very earliest, in the late second century...

I've posted elsewhere how Clement was the first of a number of writers to be quoting the gospels and epistles before 150 CE.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-05-2015, 05:49 PM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2015 09:32 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-05-2015 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(22-05-2015 04:47 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Read it ( James' epistle) and the meaning is clear. It is only about five pages long. The author was telling his fellow Jews how to be good Jews.

No, sorry. BB is certain "salvation" isn't an OT concept. "What good my brethren... can such faith save him?"

You've said Paul made up a new faith (and somehow, therefore, as a Roman conspirator, Paul declares all foods clean but says Gentiles are unclean) and now we have James making up the new Christian faith?

The word ""save" doesn't necessarily relate to your concept of "salvation"....for eg

"15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." (James 5, KJV)

Please quote for me, from James, where you think James is "making up the new Christian faith."

Perhaps you could then go on to explain why James would have written this about faith if he were a Christian...

"17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."


(James 1, KJV).

Show me why you think James was a Christian.

Where does James mention the resurrection (the central tenet) of Christianity? The miracles? The parables?

Please explain why the early church fathers described James as a pious Jew if he was a Christian.

Please explain why you imagine a Jew could be a Christian? The fact is you cannot be both. The two beliefs are mutually exclusive.

After you have failed to prove James was a Christian, ask yourself whether it is likely his brother, Yeshua , was a Christian.

The truth is that your god boy, Jeebus, if he existed, was a Jew, not a Christian.
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22-05-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-05-2015 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(22-05-2015 05:05 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "The Jewish people were exceptional for recording what they believed scripture..."

Maybe so. You do realise, I hope, that the gospels were never thought of as "scripture" by Jews?

The gospels were only considered to be "scripture" ( by some gentiles) at the very earliest, in the late second century...

I've posted elsewhere how Clement was the first of a number of writers to be quoting the gospels and epistles before 150 CE.

And I have convincingly rebutted this false idea by pointing out that "Clement" was not quoting the gospels, and even if he was was, there's no reason why those supposed quotes could not be interpolations.
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26-05-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(22-05-2015 05:52 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(22-05-2015 09:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I've posted elsewhere how Clement was the first of a number of writers to be quoting the gospels and epistles before 150 CE.

And I have convincingly rebutted this false idea by pointing out that "Clement" was not quoting the gospels, and even if he was was, there's no reason why those supposed quotes could not be interpolations.

1. In context, Clement is quoting a source and not coming up with platitudes.

2. I suppose anything and everything in every document could be an interpolation. I wasn't there when Clement wrote but wonder why TTA members constantly say everything Christian was interpolated but never play that card when attempting to use other ancient documents to refute the scriptures. Do you have citations I can review showing Clement's letters copied and changed with variants?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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