Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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10-07-2015, 04:55 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2015 05:09 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(10-07-2015 10:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(09-07-2015 12:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Totally FALSE. ALL of it.
There was no Moses, and the "law that humans (later) created" was LABELED "Mosaic Law". The fact that ancient Near Eastern customs which were sanctioned by the priests and codified, and LATER labeled "Mosaic Law" is proof of NOTHING except they slapped a label on it to give it validity. It's like Americans calling something LATER "Jeffersonian" in the sense that the labelers THINK it is in conformity with what they THINK (an immaginary) Moses or Jefferson, might have approved of.

Archeology "verifies" no such thing. The fact that there is a site called "Abraham's tomb" in no way proves THE Biblical Abraham existed or that he is burried there. The fact that some similar names were found (such as Jerrico ... and BTW archeology PROVES the Biblical events at Jerrico did not and could not have happened the way the Bible says they did) is proof of NOTHING except that these were common names floating around and were applied to some places and LATER written into the Bible.

You have no, (as in ZERO) edication in Biblical Studies, Q.
You have NO clue what you're babbling about.
No scholar agrees with your bullshit.

My question to Q is : "If the Bible is PROVEN to be "God's word" and IF that is done by fulfilled prophecy, then what is the threshold for acceptance of this concept ? 25 %, 10 %, 5 % ? We know for a fact that many Biblical prophecies did not come true. So what is the empirical cut-off point at which the notion verifies the claim, exactly ? 55.62 % coming true ? What exactly is the threshold beyond which the notion is dismissed as false. If you HAVE no such standard, you are an intellectual fraud.

Also Q, you say that there are Bible codes. I want to know what the threshold for belief in that crap is also ? We know for a FACT, that the same sorts of "codes" are found in any work of literature, incluing Shakespeare. If that is the case, what is the standard for "codes present" that meets the standard for belief in a bullshit deity. 10 ? 15 ? 75 ? 50 ? What is the standard for coding that makes a book "divinely inspired" or not. You MUST have one or the entire enterprise is irrational. How do I decide a book is "the word" ? How many and how much BETTER must the codes be, than the codes everywhere else, that are so ubiquitous in all of literature, to constitute your "proof" ? Also please tell us, since Hebrew was written right to left with no breaks, and Greek was written with no breaks, in what language and what version EXACTLY are you taking your codes coming from, and also WHAT EXACTLY would falsify a particualar book from your canon. I want to know the EXACT standard number or percentage used to differentiate. If you have non, you're simply full of shit.

There are thousands, not dozens, of archaeology points that validate the Bible text, which is a collection of extensive texts with many thousands of place names, people names, and other details, as I've already written.

I do have a biblical education. You might have forgotten, although to be frank, when you rage on and on like this I wonder if you are drinking or high when you make attacks on my education. I have a humanities degree, a Religion Bachelor's degree from a secular university, with an emphasis on biblical studies, the ANE and NT Christianity. I chose for my language study ancient Greek. I've studied Hebrew some as well. I've discussed Bible doctrines with all kinds of experts from professors at my university (for 25 years now, still) to Norman Geisler, Michael Behe, Hal Lindsey, etc. -- conservatives and liberals with different perspectives, credentials, etc. A lot of scholars, with more degrees each than you or I will ever hold, agree with me. You are wrong. It would be more correct to say "many scholars don't agree with your fundie nonsense," to which my reply would be "many scholars don't agree with your mainline nonsense". I hope that helps.

To answer your (rudely asserted) question, the standard of accuracy I'd expect from a Bible from God would be 100%. 100% of church age prophecies have come true. The next batches of prophecies coming include the restoration of temple worship in Israel, peace between Israel and the Arabs, Antichrist, Armageddon and the Return of Jesus.

"If you're going to waste my time and that of the sincere skeptics around here with wacky ideas,..."

"The next batches of prophecies coming include the restoration of temple worship in Israel, peace between Israel and the Arabs, Antichrist, Armageddon and the Return of Jesus."

Oh the irony! Facepalm

"100% of church age prophecies have come true. The next batches of prophecies coming include the restoration of temple worship in Israel, peace between Israel and the Arabs, Antichrist, Armageddon and the Return of Jesus."

HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh
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10-07-2015, 06:19 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2015 06:46 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
An interesting series of quotes...

"Your Jeebus, if he ever existed, was not a Christian, and not a Roman. He was a Galilean zealot, possibly a Jewish religious fanatic, who caused a ruckus in Jerusalem, and was executed BY THE ROMANS. " ... Mark, to Q, post 396


* You have no proof, textual within the Bible or historical outside the Bible, to prove your assumptions like "Jesus was a Roman" .... Q, to Mark, post 404


"I believe Mark's claim is more along the lines of "Jesus was a fictional character created by the Romans"....Grasshopper to Q, post 406


"Now you are quoting me using a non existent quote. I never said Jesus was a Roman. In fact I've made it very clear that I think Jesus, if he even existed, was a Jewish zealot implacably opposed to Rome's rule. His story was almost certainly invented by Romans, or by people working for the Roman government. Your lack of willingness, or inability, to understand what others have said is disturbing" ...Mark to Q, post 408


"You don't understand the history, and you have no idea what "my" theory is. You thought I thought Jeebus was a Roman!"....Mark to Q, post 415


"* I said Mark said Jesus was a Roman as MARK again cited (without textual or corroborative evidence) the NT as Roman fabrication theory while using the name Jesus (in error without using the words "epistle", "Paul", etc.) - wholly Mark's issue/fault" ....Q , post 416


" "Mark said Jesus was a Roman"

No I didn't. I am Mark. I know what I say. Are you going to try to prove to me that you know what I say, and I don't?

"...while using the name Jesus (in error without using the words "epistle", "Paul", etc.) - wholly Mark's issue/fault"

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Do you?"....Mark, post 420 (no explanation in reply...just the following....again...)

"Very simply put, when you use terms like "the Roman Jesus" you were fair game. Better next time to write "the Roman conspiracy surrounding Jesus". I can't be blamed if you write so carelessly." ...Q, post 424


"Quote me to prove your point. I have scores of comments on this forum stating that I think Jesus (if he ever even existed) was a fundamentalist Jewish zealot opposed to Roman rule. This " Mark thinks Jesus was a Roman" idea is a figment of your imagination." ...Mark, post 430 ( No answer as yet)


Ladies and gentlemen, this is a good example of the level of discussion one typically has with the Q. He will blatantly, repeatedly, claim he is right despite all evidence to the contrary. He's not honest enough to objectively examine anything.

PS. The unfortunate thing about this is that instead of discussing real issues we're squabbling over non-issues. If Q was genuinely interested in the history, he would be asking questions, not justifying his position by lying. If he did that, the standard here would be much higher and who knows, we all might learn something.
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10-07-2015, 07:55 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Mark, all Christian apologists lie. Q is simply an example of many.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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10-07-2015, 08:04 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
But, but ... he studied with Michael Behe. Thumbsup

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-07-2015, 08:08 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(10-07-2015 11:02 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you're going to waste my time and that of the sincere skeptics around here with wacky ideas, at least make them your own, and not the nonsense you pulled off an educational website...

Feel free to make your exit. Since when does Q speak for skeptics /

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-07-2015, 08:18 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(10-07-2015 08:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(10-07-2015 11:02 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you're going to waste my time and that of the sincere skeptics around here with wacky ideas, at least make them your own, and not the nonsense you pulled off an educational website...

Feel free to make your exit. Since when does Q speak for skeptics /

When one asks for evidence of, for example a peer reviewed paper, one must expect it to be quoted.

The problem for Q is that he has no decent peer reviewed proofs for any of his assertions. Big Grin

All apologists must lie. They have no other choice. One cannot prove a lie.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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10-07-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(10-07-2015 07:55 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Mark, all Christian apologists lie. Q is simply an example of many.

I'm beginning to think that's a fairly good generalisation.
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10-07-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(10-07-2015 08:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(10-07-2015 11:02 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you're going to waste my time and that of the sincere skeptics around here with wacky ideas, at least make them your own, and not the nonsense you pulled off an educational website...

Feel free to make your exit. Since when does Q speak for skeptics /

Damn those educational websites! So full of facts!
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10-07-2015, 09:18 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2015 09:38 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(10-07-2015 10:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(09-07-2015 12:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Totally FALSE. ALL of it.
There was no Moses, and the "law that humans (later) created" was LABELED "Mosaic Law". The fact that ancient Near Eastern customs which were sanctioned by the priests and codified, and LATER labeled "Mosaic Law" is proof of NOTHING except they slapped a label on it to give it validity. It's like Americans calling something LATER "Jeffersonian" in the sense that the labelers THINK it is in conformity with what they THINK (an immaginary) Moses or Jefferson, might have approved of.

Archeology "verifies" no such thing. The fact that there is a site called "Abraham's tomb" in no way proves THE Biblical Abraham existed or that he is burried there. The fact that some similar names were found (such as Jerrico ... and BTW archeology PROVES the Biblical events at Jerrico did not and could not have happened the way the Bible says they did) is proof of NOTHING except that these were common names floating around and were applied to some places and LATER written into the Bible.

You have no, (as in ZERO) edication in Biblical Studies, Q.
You have NO clue what you're babbling about.
No scholar agrees with your bullshit.

My question to Q is : "If the Bible is PROVEN to be "God's word" and IF that is done by fulfilled prophecy, then what is the threshold for acceptance of this concept ? 25 %, 10 %, 5 % ? We know for a fact that many Biblical prophecies did not come true. So what is the empirical cut-off point at which the notion verifies the claim, exactly ? 55.62 % coming true ? What exactly is the threshold beyond which the notion is dismissed as false. If you HAVE no such standard, you are an intellectual fraud.

Also Q, you say that there are Bible codes. I want to know what the threshold for belief in that crap is also ? We know for a FACT, that the same sorts of "codes" are found in any work of literature, incluing Shakespeare. If that is the case, what is the standard for "codes present" that meets the standard for belief in a bullshit deity. 10 ? 15 ? 75 ? 50 ? What is the standard for coding that makes a book "divinely inspired" or not. You MUST have one or the entire enterprise is irrational. How do I decide a book is "the word" ? How many and how much BETTER must the codes be, than the codes everywhere else, that are so ubiquitous in all of literature, to constitute your "proof" ? Also please tell us, since Hebrew was written right to left with no breaks, and Greek was written with no breaks, in what language and what version EXACTLY are you taking your codes coming from, and also WHAT EXACTLY would falsify a particualar book from your canon. I want to know the EXACT standard number or percentage used to differentiate. If you have non, you're simply full of shit.

There are thousands, not dozens, of archaeology points that validate the Bible text, which is a collection of extensive texts with many thousands of place names, people names, and other details, as I've already written.

I do have a biblical education. You might have forgotten, although to be frank, when you rage on and on like this I wonder if you are drinking or high when you make attacks on my education. I have a humanities degree, a Religion Bachelor's degree from a secular university, with an emphasis on biblical studies, the ANE and NT Christianity. I chose for my language study ancient Greek. I've studied Hebrew some as well. I've discussed Bible doctrines with all kinds of experts from professors at my university (for 25 years now, still) to Norman Geisler, Michael Behe, Hal Lindsey, etc. -- conservatives and liberals with different perspectives, credentials, etc. A lot of scholars, with more degrees each than you or I will ever hold, agree with me. You are wrong. It would be more correct to say "many scholars don't agree with your fundie nonsense," to which my reply would be "many scholars don't agree with your mainline nonsense". I hope that helps.

To answer your (rudely asserted) question, the standard of accuracy I'd expect from a Bible from God would be 100%. 100% of church age prophecies have come true. The next batches of prophecies coming include the restoration of temple worship in Israel, peace between Israel and the Arabs, Antichrist, Armageddon and the Return of Jesus.

"Norman Geisler, Michael Behe, Hal Lindsey, etc."

Ha ha! You admit, in public, and proudly, that you associate with these morons! I looked them up on Wikipedia, (see the cut and pastes below) as they are hardly household names in Australia. Strike me pink! So this is where you get your ideas? Fucking hell. Some parts of American culture are more fucked up than I had imagined.

Please keep posting Q. I now know that I'm corresponding with the religious lunatic fringe. The world needs to know about people like you.

"Geisler is known first and foremost as a classical Christian apologist. Between 1970 and 1990 he participated in dozens of public debates and gained a reputation as a powerful defender of the theism, biblical miracles, the resurrection of Jesus, and the reliability of the Bible."

"Michael J. Behe (/ˈbiːhiː/ bee-hee; born January 18, 1952) is an American biochemist, author, and intelligent design (ID) advocate. He serves as professor of biochemistry at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania and as a senior fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. Behe is best known for his argument for irreducible complexity (IC), which argues that some biochemical structures are too complex to be explained by known evolutionary mechanisms and are therefore probably the result of intelligent design. Behe has testified in several court cases related to intelligent design, including the court case Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District that resulted in a ruling that intelligent design was religious in nature.[2]

Behe's claims about the irreducible complexity of essential cellular structures have been rejected by the vast majority of the scientific community,[3][4] and his own biology department at Lehigh University published an official statement opposing Behe's views and intelligent design.[5][6]"

"Hal Lindsey was born on November 23, 1929 to Percy Lacy Lindsey and Daisy Lee Freeman in Houston, Texas. Lindsey suspended his course of study at the University of Houston to serve in the Korean War, then worked as a Mississippi River tugboat captain.

He entered Dallas Theological Seminary in 1958 (with the help of Lt. Col. Robert Thieme, pastor of Berachah Church in Houston, which Lindsey had attended) where he studied with John F. Walvoord, author of the 1974 best-seller Armageddon, Oil, and the Middle East Crisis. He graduated from Dallas with a Master of Theology, majoring in the New Testament and early Greek literature.[1] With Jan, his second wife, he worked with Campus Crusade for Christ and continued with them until 1969. He then helped a mission in Southern California which continued until 1976. He was also a frequent speaker and Sunday School teacher at Melodyland Christian Center in Anaheim, California. In 1969, he wrote his first, and best-known book, The Late, Great Planet Earth.

Published in 1970 by Zondervan, The Late, Great Planet Earth became a bestseller. Coming on the heels of the Six-Day War, the book fueled the popularity of dispensationalism and its support of ethnic Jews as the "chosen people of God". Many of Lindsey's later writings are sequels or revisions and extensions of his first book. In 1994, he earned his Doctorate of Theology from California School of Theology.[2]

Lindsey hosted International Intelligence Briefing on the Trinity Broadcasting Network and serves on the executive board of Christian Voice.[3]

International Intelligence Briefing was removed from the air on TBN for the entire month of December 2005. Lindsey claimed that this was because "some at the network apparently feel that [his] message is too pro-Israel and too anti-Muslim."[4] TBN owner Paul Crouch, however, contended that "TBN has never been and is not now against Israel and the Jewish people."[5] Crouch said that Lindsey's show was pre-empted for Christmas programming. Lindsey countered that this was the first time his show had been preempted for the entire month of December. TBN later admitted that a secondary reason for pre-empting the show was that it "placed Arabs in a negative light."[6]

Lindsey resigned from TBN on January 1, 2006, and indicated that he would pursue another television ministry. His new program, The Hal Lindsey Report, is focused on Biblical prophecy and current events, and is carried on the Angel One and DayStar networks. In January 2007, Lindsey announced that he would be returning to the TBN network. The Hal Lindsey Report airs on TBN under his own financing.[7]

He wrote in an essay on WorldNetDaily that Barack Obama was paving the way for, and demonstrating the world's readiness for, the antichrist, "Obama is correct in saying that the world is ready for someone like him – a messiah-like figure, charismatic and glib ... The Bible calls that leader the Antichrist. And it seems apparent that the world is now ready to make his acquaintance."[8]"
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10-07-2015, 09:25 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(10-07-2015 07:55 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Mark, all Christian apologists lie. Q is simply an example of many.

And not a very good one at that.

#sigh
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