Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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13-07-2015, 05:56 PM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2015 06:41 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(13-07-2015 01:29 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

I'm aware that Dr. Behe has faced "debunking" by secular courts ruling against ID, sure. And? My point still stands. BB and Mark are sharing unoriginal, unorthodox concepts culled from Bible "studies" at secular universities? And? The Bible still stands.

Yes, we don't know a lot about Paul's life? And? The NT isn't Paul's biography. It extols Jesus Christ, and Paul further writes that his own "seminary" learning and etc. are worth little compared to knowing Jesus Christ. I wish you all could agree to this point!

I'm sorry, but despite a few shouted protestations from BB, archaeology has confirmed many (conservative) Bible places, people and dates. You can visit King David's tomb today, where "scholars" said not long ago David was a made-up king. Moses, Phinehas, etc. - some of the Levite names ARE Egyptian names, despite "scholarly" insistence within recent years that they are made up, non-Egyptian names. Etc.

"Yes, we don't know a lot about Paul's life? And? The NT isn't Paul's biography. It extols Jesus Christ, and Paul further writes that his own "seminary" learning and etc. are worth little compared to knowing Jesus Christ. I wish you all could agree to this point!"

I posted post 430 for you, Q. I addressed who Paul was and why I think he wrote what he did. These are core issues at the very foundation of your faith. I provided numerous links for you. At least some people appreciated the effort (5 likes.) This is your pathetic response! You quite clearly didn't even read what I wrote, or else you just skimmed over it. You haven't thought through the issues surrounding Paul. You don't know the history, and what's even sadder is that you are not willing to discuss it.

Paul (probably) was the main creator of your faith. His letters occupy one third of the new Testament. You therefore, if you're an honest evangelist, must have spent many years learning and thinking about Paul.

Let's get down to the nuts and bolts of Christianity. I open the door to you. Tell us who Paul was, where he sourced his ideas, why he did what he did, why he is respected by Christians, and how his letters got into the Bible, and when. Tell us what Paul knew of the Jesus of the gospels. Tell us about Paul's relationship with the followers of Jesus. Tell us about the relationship between today's gospels and Paul's writings.

This is your chance to educate us. With facts. We want facts, and only then your opinions. Cut out the ad hominems, the appeals to authority, and don't change the topic, and answer all the questions you are asked. I'll try to do the same.
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14-07-2015, 10:50 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
I did read your post regarding Paul. You were guilty of making numerous arguments from silence.

In your most recent posts, you say plainly false things, like "Paul never met Jesus". Perhaps you should re-read the accounts (there is more than one) of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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14-07-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(14-07-2015 10:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I did read your post regarding Paul. You were guilty of making numerous arguments from silence.

In your most recent posts, you say plainly false things, like "Paul never met Jesus". Perhaps you should re-read the accounts (there is more than one) of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.

That was at best a "vision" (more likely a hallucination). He never met the man Jesus in the flesh, and I'm pretty sure that you knew that's what Mark meant. Don't be such an ass. Hearing voices in your head hardly counts as "meeting" someone.

By the way, the accounts of Paul's hallucination differ in important details, such as whether or not his companions heard/saw the same thing(s) he did. This doesn't add to their credibility.
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14-07-2015, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2015 03:34 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(14-07-2015 10:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I did read your post regarding Paul. You were guilty of making numerous arguments from silence.

In your most recent posts, you say plainly false things, like "Paul never met Jesus". Perhaps you should re-read the accounts (there is more than one) of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.

What Grasshopper said. What is more, the road to Damascus hallucination never happened. Paul never mentions it once. It was made up by the author of Acts. Read post 450 again....slowly. There is a crack in everything...that's how the light gets in.

Admit you are gutless. You haven't responded to my challenge. What's it like living a lie?
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14-07-2015, 04:01 PM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2015 04:50 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(14-07-2015 10:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I did read your post regarding Paul. You were guilty of making numerous arguments from silence.

In your most recent posts, you say plainly false things, like "Paul never met Jesus". Perhaps you should re-read the accounts (there is more than one) of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.

And they contradict each other actually. "Read" them where ?
Oh ... you mean the fairy tale entitled "Acts of the Apostles".

LOL

Gotcha. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-07-2015, 01:59 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(14-07-2015 04:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(14-07-2015 10:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I did read your post regarding Paul. You were guilty of making numerous arguments from silence.

In your most recent posts, you say plainly false things, like "Paul never met Jesus". Perhaps you should re-read the accounts (there is more than one) of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.

And they contradict each other actually. "Read" them where ?
Oh ... you mean the fairy tale entitled "Acts of the Apostles".

LOL

Gotcha. Weeping

Ain't it amazing that whoever pieced together the story in Acts was too lazy or too stupid to make the accounts of Paul's supposed hallucination consistent?Facepalm

The book of Acts obviously was written for uneducated people. Perhaps that is why Q believes what is in it? Drinking Beverage
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15-07-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Mark,

Your "challenge" is that point by point, I labor to refute your recent points. Yet, you are rude to me and rudely dismissive of every point I've made on this thread. You've addressed none of my points using facts.

For an example, you are taking Grasshopper's point without citing the fact that Paul was not alone during his conversion but was in the presence of others. Nor do the accounts contradict one another--though I had a professor who attempted to demonstrate such in my classes back when. I don't want to belabor this point, however, as if I can prove the accounts are consistent, you would still say it wasn't possible for a resurrected Jesus to appear before Paul, since you deny the resurrection.

'Nuff said.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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15-07-2015, 10:58 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(15-07-2015 10:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Mark,

Your "challenge" is that point by point, I labor to refute your recent points. Yet, you are rude to me and rudely dismissive of every point I've made on this thread. You've addressed none of my points using facts.

For an example, you are taking Grasshopper's point without citing the fact that Paul was not alone during his conversion but was in the presence of others. Nor do the accounts contradict one another--though I had a professor who attempted to demonstrate such in my classes back when. I don't want to belabor this point, however, as if I can prove the accounts are consistent, you would still say it wasn't possible for a resurrected Jesus to appear before Paul, since you deny the resurrection.

'Nuff said.

Actually, Mark and Bucky both go way beyond my point by pointing out that "Acts of the Apostles" is fiction. I was assuming for the sake of argument that it was a more or less factual account. They are doing more than just "taking my point". I will defer to them, since their knowledge of the Bible is much deeper than mine (and probably yours as well).
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15-07-2015, 11:42 AM (This post was last modified: 15-07-2015 02:55 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(15-07-2015 10:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You've addressed none of my points using facts.

Yet that hardly seems to be your standard ... at all. You claim there are archaeological finds that support the OT, yet you can't even discuss them.

(15-07-2015 10:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Nor do the accounts contradict one another--though I had a professor who attempted to demonstrate such in my classes back when.

They obviously do, concerning where exactly it happened and what happened afterwards. You make general claims, yet are unable to discuss DETAILS. Why is that ?

(15-07-2015 10:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't want to belabor this point, however, as if I can prove the accounts are consistent, you would still say it wasn't possible for a resurrected Jesus to appear before Paul, since you deny the resurrection.

Yet as Christian scholar and seminary professor of New Testament, (which YOU are not, Q) Dr. Bernard Brandon Scott writes in his "The Trouble With Resurrection" the words used actually can be seen to mean that Paul had an "insight" and *came to understand* that Jesus (whom he HAD NEVER MET) was (for one reason or another) the "annointed one" who had been "exalted" in the VERY SAME way other Jewish apocalyptic heroes were "exalted" (and NOT physically *raised from the dead*), and as many times, the story was metaphorical, as among the literate, literature took many forms, including in the texts included in the canon. These concepts are agreed to, by Dr. Bart Ehrman in his newest book, "How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee". There's that pesky word again, .... "exaltation" (as in *raised up*) ... NOT *raised from the dead*. With any other literary work, literary genre and literary style and form would be weighed, yet Fundies won't allow it here, ... but this iS liertature. Fundies dismiss these considerations, in favor of childish simplistic literal interpretations, which virtually no mainline scholars agree with, including some of the most conservative.

(15-07-2015 10:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  'Nuff said.

You wish. Hardly "'nuff said". You lack ANY expertise in the fields of literary, archaeological or form criticism, Q. Just like most Fundies.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-07-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
I must say, as much as I want to get involved with this discussion, the view is just so good from here. PopcornSmile

**Crickets** -- God
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