Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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16-07-2015, 01:49 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(16-07-2015 07:31 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-07-2015 02:55 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  This post is a typical example of you just not getting the guts of an argument. Three of us have pointed out to you that the account of Paul's "conversion" on the road to Damascus in Acts is not believable because
- Paul, in his own writings, never once mentioned this fabulous event.
- Even if Paul did have this hallucination...it was just that...an hallucination. Your Jeebus was dead.

You, however, aptly demonstrate your credulity by saying "Paul was not alone during his conversion but was in the presence of others." The fact is, the accounts (both of them) in Acts have just been proven to be fabrications. The author of Acts was creating, not recording, history, so his (amateurish) attempts to portray that many others saw Paul's vision too is just a story.

No one knows for sure who the author of Acts was, but he was not a Jew, or a Nazarene, or a person who knew Paul, or even a person living in Jerusalem in the 50’s and 60’s. He was (probably) writing some time in the early second century, at least 50 years after the events described. He never revealed from where he sourced his information. He was most likely a spin-doctor, a rewriter of history - someone employed to create a fabricated tale about the origins of Christianity.

The undeniable truth is that there are no first hand accounts from anyone who allegedly saw the magical appearance of your Jeebus on the road to Damascus.

Likewise, this post is typical...

Paul, in his own writings, never once mentioned this fabulous event.

"Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes, to the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours..." - 1 Corinthians 1:1-2

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God." - 1 Corinthians 15:3-9

Here you are claiming Paul never mentioned seeing Jesus Christ. Yet here is a letter from Paul in which he claims apostleship because he indeed saw Christ (one mark of an apostle was they had seen Christ as an eyewitness).

I hope that you will someday read the scriptures in addition to critiquing them, with an end result of salvation.

Thanks.

Apparently your brain works very biased or badly.

Is Paul SPECIFICALLY detailing the "road to Damascus" meeting by any criteria. That "fabulous" event as it is being labeled here? NO. That's the point being made that you don't somehow see. You jump to assume it's the type of thing you can make evidence of. He proclaims to have seen him, but doesn't describe the event that is described elsewhere and recounted as remarkable by Christians of your Paul believing ilk.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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16-07-2015, 02:42 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(16-07-2015 01:49 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-07-2015 07:31 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Likewise, this post is typical...

Paul, in his own writings, never once mentioned this fabulous event.

"Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes, to the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours..." - 1 Corinthians 1:1-2

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God." - 1 Corinthians 15:3-9

Here you are claiming Paul never mentioned seeing Jesus Christ. Yet here is a letter from Paul in which he claims apostleship because he indeed saw Christ (one mark of an apostle was they had seen Christ as an eyewitness).

I hope that you will someday read the scriptures in addition to critiquing them, with an end result of salvation.

Thanks.

Apparently your brain works very biased or badly.

Is Paul SPECIFICALLY detailing the "road to Damascus" meeting by any criteria. That "fabulous" event as it is being labeled here? NO. That's the point being made that you don't somehow see. You jump to assume it's the type of thing you can make evidence of. He proclaims to have seen him, but doesn't describe the event that is described elsewhere and recounted as remarkable by Christians of your Paul believing ilk.

Also, when Paul says "He appeared to me" -- that is not how a normal person would describe actually meeting someone, which is what we were debating. This is obviously (obvious to me anyway) referring to some sort of "vision", which may or may not be the one referred to in Acts. Paul says nothing about being knocked off his horse or blinded. Yes, it is possible that he is describing that experience (if it happened at all), but it's also quite possible that he isn't. What we can be pretty sure of, though, is that he never actually "met" Jesus. Because if he did, he would say so in no uncertain terms.
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16-07-2015, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2015 03:16 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(16-07-2015 07:31 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-07-2015 02:55 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  This post is a typical example of you just not getting the guts of an argument. Three of us have pointed out to you that the account of Paul's "conversion" on the road to Damascus in Acts is not believable because
- Paul, in his own writings, never once mentioned this fabulous event.
- Even if Paul did have this hallucination...it was just that...an hallucination. Your Jeebus was dead.

You, however, aptly demonstrate your credulity by saying "Paul was not alone during his conversion but was in the presence of others." The fact is, the accounts (both of them) in Acts have just been proven to be fabrications. The author of Acts was creating, not recording, history, so his (amateurish) attempts to portray that many others saw Paul's vision too is just a story.

No one knows for sure who the author of Acts was, but he was not a Jew, or a Nazarene, or a person who knew Paul, or even a person living in Jerusalem in the 50’s and 60’s. He was (probably) writing some time in the early second century, at least 50 years after the events described. He never revealed from where he sourced his information. He was most likely a spin-doctor, a rewriter of history - someone employed to create a fabricated tale about the origins of Christianity.

The undeniable truth is that there are no first hand accounts from anyone who allegedly saw the magical appearance of your Jeebus on the road to Damascus.

Likewise, this post is typical...

Paul, in his own writings, never once mentioned this fabulous event.

"Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes, to the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours..." - 1 Corinthians 1:1-2

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God." - 1 Corinthians 15:3-9

Here you are claiming Paul never mentioned seeing Jesus Christ. Yet here is a letter from Paul in which he claims apostleship because he indeed saw Christ (one mark of an apostle was they had seen Christ as an eyewitness).

I hope that you will someday read the scriptures in addition to critiquing them, with an end result of salvation.

Thanks.

Well done (I mean it...) you actually (here) bothered to check out some facts rather than just repeat yourself. I can also understand what you are trying to say (in this post.) Baby steps....

Yet...you are wrong. Read carefully what ClydeLee, Bucky and Grasshopper wrote.

You are assuming that when Paul wrote that Christ "appeared " to him, Paul is referring to the apparition in Acts. Paul never mentions the journey, the horse, the road to Demascus, the physical appearance of Jesus, or the supposed fact he was blinded for a few days. These are impossible ommissions if they were true.

Imagine you had met your Jeebus in such circumstances. You would be telling the world repeatedly about how it happened. There wouldn't be a single person on the thinking atheist forum who didn't know what happened to you. Yet Paul never mentions the road to Damascus apparition even once.
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16-07-2015, 03:05 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2015 06:28 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Paul was a man eager to be believed and desperate to shore up his own credibility, as his ideas were without precedent and not based on traditional Jewish dogma. If Paul had experienced a visit from Jesus’ ghost on the road to Damascus and been temporarily blinded, he undoubtedly would have mentioned it in his letters, but he does not.

The author of Acts was trying to make his readers believe that Paul had received his commission - and therefore his legitimacy - directly from Jesus. The difficult fact for the author of Acts was that Jesus had died many years before Paul surfaced. It was managed by having Jesus’ ghost appear to Paul, who then, allegedly, went from being intensely pro-Jewish to becoming a fan of Jesus and fiercely pro-Christian.

The road to Damascus story was probably written sometime at least fifty-plus years after this epiphany was supposed to have happened, by someone (real identity unknown) who did not witness it, (if he did he would have said so) and by someone who never even claimed he had met Paul.

The author of Acts, through the story of the apparition, retrospectively falsely anointed Paul as Jesus’ new spokesman.
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16-07-2015, 03:27 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2015 03:37 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(16-07-2015 07:31 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-07-2015 02:55 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  This post is a typical example of you just not getting the guts of an argument. Three of us have pointed out to you that the account of Paul's "conversion" on the road to Damascus in Acts is not believable because
- Paul, in his own writings, never once mentioned this fabulous event.
- Even if Paul did have this hallucination...it was just that...an hallucination. Your Jeebus was dead.

You, however, aptly demonstrate your credulity by saying "Paul was not alone during his conversion but was in the presence of others." The fact is, the accounts (both of them) in Acts have just been proven to be fabrications. The author of Acts was creating, not recording, history, so his (amateurish) attempts to portray that many others saw Paul's vision too is just a story.

No one knows for sure who the author of Acts was, but he was not a Jew, or a Nazarene, or a person who knew Paul, or even a person living in Jerusalem in the 50’s and 60’s. He was (probably) writing some time in the early second century, at least 50 years after the events described. He never revealed from where he sourced his information. He was most likely a spin-doctor, a rewriter of history - someone employed to create a fabricated tale about the origins of Christianity.

The undeniable truth is that there are no first hand accounts from anyone who allegedly saw the magical appearance of your Jeebus on the road to Damascus.

Likewise, this post is typical...

Paul, in his own writings, never once mentioned this fabulous event.

"Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes, to the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours..." - 1 Corinthians 1:1-2

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God." - 1 Corinthians 15:3-9

Here you are claiming Paul never mentioned seeing Jesus Christ. Yet here is a letter from Paul in which he claims apostleship because he indeed saw Christ (one mark of an apostle was they had seen Christ as an eyewitness).

I hope that you will someday read the scriptures in addition to critiquing them, with an end result of salvation.

Thanks.

Let's consider how Paul got to know his Christ by looking at what Paul wrote elsewhere...

Paul Knew Almost Nothing of "Jesus"

Most Christians incorrectly assume Paul was restating Jesus’ teachings. Yet Paul never claimed he was inspired or influenced by Jesus or Jesus’ disciples. Paul held his messages came from God and were about his Christ. They were not from the Jesus in the Gospels, who was someone else.

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_...e_epistles )

Paul’s Christ was not the wise teacher full of parables and anecdotes the modern reader knows from the Gospels. Amazingly, today’s Gospel reader seems to know more about “Jesus” than Paul did!

Paul wrote,
“Even if we did once know Christ in the flesh, that is not how we know him now” (2 Cor. 5:16, NJB.)

What an extraordinary statement! It only begins to make sense if we realize that Paul was only interested in the idea of a resurrected spirit, his Christ figurehead. A “once human” Jesus, someone with a personality and ideas, was never a topic Paul was comfortable discussing.

Someone passing himself off as Paul wrote that “Christ” was a mystery, one that he had a particularly good understanding of:

“Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ” (Eph. 3:4, KJV,) and

“Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds” (Col. 4:3, KJV.)

Paul did not give a fig tree about the details of Jesus’ life, family, miracles or Jesus’ teachings. (http://www.sonofman.org/paul1.htm ) The only facts about Christ that mattered to Paul were that a Christ was crucified and resurrected. Paul rambled on and on about the supposed significance of Christ’s death and resurrection, not about the details of Jesus’ life.( http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamin...-did-paul-
know-about-jesus-not-much/ )

Consider Galatians:

“Then god who had specially chosen me while I was still in my mother’s womb, called me through his grace and chose to reveal his son in me, so that I might preach the Good News about him to the pagans. I did not stop to discuss this with any human being nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were already apostles before me, but I went off to Arabia at once and later went straight back from there to Damascus. Even when after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and stayed with him for fifteen days, I did not see any of the other apostles; I only saw James, the brother of the Lord, and I swear before God that what I have just written is the literal truth” (Gal. 1:15–20, NJB.)

After God “called” Paul, Paul more or less snubbed Yeshua’s family and supporters by shooting off to Arabia for three years. If Paul had thought Yeshua was the Son of God, surely he would have jolted to Jerusalem to meet James, Jesus’ brother, and Peter and Mary, two of Jesus’ close associates. Should not Paul have been anxious to meet the other Mary, Yeshua’s mum, the mother of God? Yet Paul very obviously was not. Something more important enticed him to Arabia. Three years later, Paul visited Jerusalem again, and there is definitely something very odd about the way Paul casually downplays the fact that he met James, Yeshua’s brother and Cephas, who was one of Yeshua’s disciples.

In all his writings Paul did not express any pleasure or awe in associating with Yeshua’s family or followers. Nor did Paul ever document what they had to say about Jesus. This is strong circumstantial evidence that Yeshua never was Paul’s Christ.

The Gospel stories are sadly short of genuine historical facts about Jesus, as they were written by no one is sure whom, by people who had no known connection to Yeshua. Things could have been different. Paul, who was educated and literate, could have saved much of the painstaking guesswork of historians over the last three hundred years (Jesus’ historicity has only been seriously studied in this time) by jotting down some facts about Jesus as related by Yeshua’s family and disciples. Paul should have outshone the Gospels and made them redundant. He did not. Instead, Paul wrote about things he thought were important: his own Christ, and his own ethics.

This was not a deliberate omission on Paul’s part; he was obviously totally unaware that people in the future might care to know about Yeshua. Interestingly, the author of the epistle of James, who may have been Jesus’ brother, also neglected to document a single fact about Jesus in his letter. Neither Paul nor James knew Jesus was going to become a hero-figure - because the Gospels had not been written yet, so Jesus’ status as a legendary character had not yet been created.

Who then, was Paul’s Christ? It was someone who Paul thought had existed in heaven since the beginning of time, yet revealed to the world via Paul’s own peculiar interpretation of Jewish Scripture. In the Gentile world of the time there was competition from many dying and rising gods such as Mithras. Those gods often did not have a mortal life that was remembered, just like Paul’s Christ. It was only the myth of them dying and rising again that gave them significance, just like Paul’s Christ. Paul’s Christ, real identity uncertain, appears to have been a Judaic myth invented to compete with these other cults. The idea that Paul’s Christ would one day be equated with Yeshua was probably never on Paul’s radar.

It is true that “Paul” mentions “Jesus” many times, yet “Jesus” may have been edited into Paul’s writings, where he had written only “Christ.” I cannot prove this happened, yet it is a distinct possibility given that there was a culture that encouraged “pious fraud” amongst Christians in the second, third and fourth centuries. Or, it could be that Paul was using the (very common) name to represent a spirit, not a person. The author of 1 Tim 6; 13 wrote that Pontius Pilate crucified Jesus, yet this was not written by Paul, but by someone writing many years later in his name. “Paul” does talk about what Christ allegedly said on the night he was betrayed, in the first letter to the Corinthians, but this whole passage is unique in that regard and therefore it too is suspiciously “unPauline.”

Most Christians who become aware of Paul’s lack of commentary on Jesus are perplexed, and with good reason. The almost complete absence of descriptions of Jesus in Paul’s writing undermines the account about Jesus’ activities in the Gospels. If Yeshua had been an inspiring, miracle working individual, someone with real feelings, empathy for his fellows, and charisma, who preached wise anecdotes that had so impressed his disciples and the crowds, Paul would have documented it, and he did not.

Outside of Jewish scripture Paul only ever acknowledged one source of wisdom—himself.

Just who Paul thought his Christ was is a difficult concept to grasp, and maybe it is not worth spending too much time on. It is worth remembering that the sources of Paul’s ideas are obscure; that Paul’s writings have been tampered with, and that original meaning is often lost in translations. Further complications are introduced by realizing that the Jesus stories we know so well only finished being cobbled together in the fourth century, and that Paul had never read them.

( http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/parttwo.htm )
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16-07-2015, 04:28 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(16-07-2015 03:27 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  “Then god who had specially chosen me while I was still in my mother’s womb, called me through his grace and chose to reveal his son in me, so that I might preach the Good News about him to the pagans. (Gal. 1:15–20, NJB.)

Paul's claiming that god revealed his son in him before he was born. That would've made Jesus a toddler at that time. Facepalm

The whole thing is so contrived, Q is really a Paulistinian, not a Christian.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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16-07-2015, 05:18 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2015 06:22 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(16-07-2015 07:31 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-07-2015 02:55 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  This post is a typical example of you just not getting the guts of an argument. Three of us have pointed out to you that the account of Paul's "conversion" on the road to Damascus in Acts is not believable because
- Paul, in his own writings, never once mentioned this fabulous event.
- Even if Paul did have this hallucination...it was just that...an hallucination. Your Jeebus was dead.

You, however, aptly demonstrate your credulity by saying "Paul was not alone during his conversion but was in the presence of others." The fact is, the accounts (both of them) in Acts have just been proven to be fabrications. The author of Acts was creating, not recording, history, so his (amateurish) attempts to portray that many others saw Paul's vision too is just a story.

No one knows for sure who the author of Acts was, but he was not a Jew, or a Nazarene, or a person who knew Paul, or even a person living in Jerusalem in the 50’s and 60’s. He was (probably) writing some time in the early second century, at least 50 years after the events described. He never revealed from where he sourced his information. He was most likely a spin-doctor, a rewriter of history - someone employed to create a fabricated tale about the origins of Christianity.

The undeniable truth is that there are no first hand accounts from anyone who allegedly saw the magical appearance of your Jeebus on the road to Damascus.

Likewise, this post is typical...

Paul, in his own writings, never once mentioned this fabulous event.

"Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes, to the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours..." - 1 Corinthians 1:1-2

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God." - 1 Corinthians 15:3-9

Here you are claiming Paul never mentioned seeing Jesus Christ. Yet here is a letter from Paul in which he claims apostleship because he indeed saw Christ (one mark of an apostle was they had seen Christ as an eyewitness).

I hope that you will someday read the scriptures in addition to critiquing them, with an end result of salvation.

Thanks.

The Corinthians chapter 15 quote is interesting.

Paul writes that a Christ "appeared" to Cephas, James, other apostles and, last of all, to him.

Note not a "Jesus," but a "Christ."

Paul fought (argued) with James and Peter and the other Nazarenes. Paul wasn't in the business of giving them (the Nazarenes) kudos, which makes me wonder whether the real Paul would have written this.

Mmmmmm. My opinion...and it is just that...an opinion....this is an interpolation written by some second century Christian. If the real Paul had thought that his Christ had appeared to others he would have written a lot more about it. He also would have described the appearance of his Christ. Having the son of God appear to you was not something you would just dismiss with a two-liner.

Elsewhere Paul makes out that his Christ was a revelation that he, and only he, had. It was a message to him from God the Father about God the son. He thought, or pretended, that he was "specially chosen" by God.

PS...ha ha....just saw Inquisition's above post....great minds think alikeBig Grin
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16-07-2015, 06:03 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2015 06:43 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(16-07-2015 04:28 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(16-07-2015 03:27 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  “Then god who had specially chosen me while I was still in my mother’s womb, called me through his grace and chose to reveal his son in me, so that I might preach the Good News about him to the pagans. (Gal. 1:15–20, NJB.)

Paul's claiming that god revealed his son in him before he was born. That would've made Jesus a toddler at that time. Facepalm

The whole thing is so contrived, Q is really a Paulistinian, not a Christian.

What an excellent point that I've never thought of before.

If God revealed his son to Paul while Paul was still in the womb, Paul's son of God was obviously not Jeebus, because Jeebus hadn't done his thing yet. It was to be another 30 odd years before Jeebus died for everyone's sins. This is more evidence that Paul didn't think his Christ was Jeebus.
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16-07-2015, 06:31 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2015 06:40 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(16-07-2015 04:28 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(16-07-2015 03:27 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  “Then god who had specially chosen me while I was still in my mother’s womb, called me through his grace and chose to reveal his son in me, so that I might preach the Good News about him to the pagans. (Gal. 1:15–20, NJB.)

Paul's claiming that god revealed his son in him before he was born. That would've made Jesus a toddler at that time. Facepalm

The whole thing is so contrived, Q is really a Paulistinian, not a Christian.

[attachment=2846]

"thanks for dying for me baby Jeebus...now...where's that clean nappy?"
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16-07-2015, 09:20 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(16-07-2015 06:03 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(16-07-2015 04:28 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Paul's claiming that god revealed his son in him before he was born. That would've made Jesus a toddler at that time. Facepalm

The whole thing is so contrived, Q is really a Paulistinian, not a Christian.

What an excellent point that I've never thought of before.

If God revealed his son to Paul while Paul was still in the womb, Paul's son of God was obviously not Jeebus, because Jeebus hadn't done his thing yet. It was to be another 30 odd years before Jeebus died for everyone's sins. This is more evidence that Paul didn't think his Christ was Jeebus.

That's actually an important line in Paul, revealing his insanity. He's quoting Jeremiah and says it refers to himself because he was nuts. Paul changed from being a self-righteous Jew to an Apostle, because he was an insane megalomaniac, and he found a better way to express it. He invokes Jeremiah, ABOUT HIMSELF, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you". (Jeremiah 1:5, Isaiah 49:1).
"However when God who designated me before I was born, and commissioned me through his grace ..." Gal 1: 11-17.

LOL

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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