Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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17-07-2015, 10:04 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Mark,

I spend an inordinate amount of time (gently or trying to do so gently) refuting Mormons, JW's, Catholics, etc. regarding their misuse, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of scripture. At least they are trying to be in God's will somehow and at least they believe (if not fervently) the scripture is true--that is, we actually TALK about scriptural concepts even if they disagree with me 100%. I don't see an overwhelming need to discuss tons of scripture with you that you are wresting wholly out of context and logic. And yes, I'll play the context card many times because it's important. An airline's jet is not very wieldy on the ground, in the context of the air it works modern wonders.

Slow down your stream-of-consciousness rebellion against God and His chosen, Paul. Pick one or two ideas, and one or two verses to interpret. Then we can discuss them or I can (attempt to) correct you if I can, and indeed and of course, if you need correction. But it's near-useless posting dozens of ideas across five posts every time to me, as millions of people receive Paul, like I do, as someone sincere and very learned in the OT, its interpretation and theology. A formerly aggressive person who became extremely gentle to others and saw thousands of people trust Jesus.

I feel like a hog or troll as it is because I try to reply to most everyone on these threads, forcing me at times to do five or six posts at once. I will not reply to you if you just spew out rhetoric not wishing to be debated--I will reply if you limit your rhetoric to one or two ideas you'd like me to consider.

Thanks for your consideration. Like Jesus, I often feel a few pithy statements are more insightful than "Here's everything I can think of that shows over and over again my mom and dad and Q and every person who loves Jesus is totally deceived!" That won't play well in public or on a forum IMHO.

Thanks!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-07-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 09:57 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm not "very" biased, just biased. Hundreds of millions of Christians have long accepted Paul's conversion, because Paul, like Peter and others, rest their main case for the authenticity of Jesus Christ on fulfilled OT prophecies rather than eyewitness testimony. I can guide you to scripture references for this point (although I believe I've raised this issue two dozen times just this past month alone on various TTA threads!).

And aren't all TTA members thrilled that we can look at the facts of Bible prophecies fulfilled rather than eyewitness testimony (as hearsay)? Angel

Except that we all know that's Fundie biased bullshit. Paul never said that and you obviously know nothing of the complexities of the role of a prophet in Hebrew society. maybe someday you'll actually take a class on your cult.

We also know there were at least as many unfulfilled prophecies.
Too bad you built your entire life on shifting sands in a house of cards.

I have 30 credits (?) in Religion studies plus a little Greek and Hebrew as you know. I believe you have likewise forgotten that Paul spoke extensively of God's foreknowledge (see Romans 9, 10 and 11, etc.) and as previously stated, the complexities of a Hebrew prophet included exhorting and encouraging the people of THEIR day while foretelling FUTURE events.

Unfortunately for you personally (or fortunately if you come to Jesus, since you'd be one heckuva preacher/apologist!) you will have to travel back to 1948 and undo the State of Israel, etc. to break Bible prophecies! Consider... Drinking Beverage

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-07-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-07-2015 01:49 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Apparently your brain works very biased or badly.

Is Paul SPECIFICALLY detailing the "road to Damascus" meeting by any criteria. That "fabulous" event as it is being labeled here? NO. That's the point being made that you don't somehow see. You jump to assume it's the type of thing you can make evidence of. He proclaims to have seen him, but doesn't describe the event that is described elsewhere and recounted as remarkable by Christians of your Paul believing ilk.

I'm not "very" biased, just biased. Hundreds of millions of Christians have long accepted Paul's conversion, because Paul, like Peter and others, rest their main case for the authenticity of Jesus Christ on fulfilled OT prophecies rather than eyewitness testimony. I can guide you to scripture references for this point (although I believe I've raised this issue two dozen times just this past month alone on various TTA threads!).

And aren't all TTA members thrilled that we can look at the facts of Bible prophecies fulfilled rather than eyewitness testimony (as hearsay)? Angel

OK, why don't you give me some scripture references where Paul rests his case on fulfilled OT prophecies -- because I can't say I've ever seen a single one of those. Paul rests his case on "the gospel he received", Jesus appearing to him, etc. -- i.e., on personal revelation. I don't recall him ever even mentioning OT prophecies. If he does, please show me where.
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17-07-2015, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2015 11:01 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 10:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 09:57 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Except that we all know that's Fundie biased bullshit. Paul never said that and you obviously know nothing of the complexities of the role of a prophet in Hebrew society. maybe someday you'll actually take a class on your cult.

We also know there were at least as many unfulfilled prophecies.
Too bad you built your entire life on shifting sands in a house of cards.

I have 30 credits (?) in Religion studies plus a little Greek and Hebrew as you know. I believe you have likewise forgotten that Paul spoke extensively of God's foreknowledge (see Romans 9, 10 and 11, etc.) and as previously stated, the complexities of a Hebrew prophet included exhorting and encouraging the people of THEIR day while foretelling FUTURE events.

Unfortunately for you personally (or fortunately if you come to Jesus, since you'd be one heckuva preacher/apologist!) you will have to travel back to 1948 and undo the State of Israel, etc. to break Bible prophecies! Consider... Drinking Beverage

The democratic "State of Israel", in which the majority of its occupants are Arabs and secular Jews in NO WAY can be seen (except by biased delusional fools) to meet any sort of prediction for a restoration of the ancient KINGDOM of Israel. (But I guess I do see why you think prophecies were fulfilled if such flimsy out-of-the-ballpark nonsense can meet your criteria ... then actually ANYTHING can be seen to meet any prediction, and you have no standards).

You are not qualified for what you seem to think you are doing. Would one year be adequate for a physician's training ? Nope. You are a quack and a charlatan snake-oil salesman.

Too bad Q. You fail again.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-07-2015, 11:29 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 10:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 10:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I have 30 credits (?) in Religion studies plus a little Greek and Hebrew as you know. I believe you have likewise forgotten that Paul spoke extensively of God's foreknowledge (see Romans 9, 10 and 11, etc.) and as previously stated, the complexities of a Hebrew prophet included exhorting and encouraging the people of THEIR day while foretelling FUTURE events.

Unfortunately for you personally (or fortunately if you come to Jesus, since you'd be one heckuva preacher/apologist!) you will have to travel back to 1948 and undo the State of Israel, etc. to break Bible prophecies! Consider... Drinking Beverage

The democratic "State of Israel", in which the majority of its occupants are Arabs and secular Jews in NO WAY can be seen (except by biased delusional fools) to meet any sort of prediction for a restoration of the ancient KINGDOM of Israel. (But I guess I do see why you think prophecies were fulfilled if such flimsy out-of-the-ballpark nonsense can meet your criteria ... then actually ANYTHING can be seen to meet any prediction, and you have no standards).

You are not qualified for what you seem to think you are doing. Would one year be adequate for a physician's training ? Nope. You are a quack and a charlatan snake-oil salesman.

Too bad Q. You fail again.

oh that tired ol "prophesy of israel".....I dont think Q comprehends how millions of delusional believers can by sheer effort over time MAKE something appear to come true....it is like self-fulfilled prophesy. But as usual, they pretend to think one so called prophesy appearing to come true thousands of years later overcomes the HUNDREDS of prophesies never come to fruitation, or the fact that the false messiah jesus (which in itself is an oxymoronic concept as there is no such thing as an actual messiah) didn't follow through with the "foretold messiah prophesy." Rolleyes

List of 480 reasons christianity is false:

http://www.kyroot.com/

Another extensive breakdown:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies

Extensive list of falsified prophesies:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

and then my favorite never realized prophesy...jesus:

The Bible claims that Jesus made the following comment:

Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Jesus also advised against going to court over someone who steals something and also told people not to store up stocks or reserves for the future. Clearly, he thought the end was very near.

Likewise, Paul advised followers not to marry and that the end time was near. In this scripture he obviously believes that some of the people he is talking to will still be alive at the second coming.

I Thessalonians 4: 16-18

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

The obvious fact is that the second coming was not forthcoming at that time, or even close to being near. The 2000-year delay is a strong piece of evidence that Christianity is a failed religion.

The following quote from Stephen L. Harris, Professor Emeritus of Humanities and Religious Studies at California State University- Sacramento, completes this point with a devastating argument. Remember that Jesus was a Jew who had no intention to deviate from the Hebrew scriptures:

“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.). Instead of freeing Jews from oppressors and thereby fulfilling God’s ancient promises—for land, nationhood, kingship, and blessing—Jesus died a “shameful” death, defeated by the very political powers the Messiah was prophesied to overcome. Indeed, the Hebrew prophets did not foresee that Israel’s savior would be executed as a common criminal by Gentiles, making Jesus’ crucifixion a “stumbling block” to scripturally literate Jews. (1 Cor.1:23)”

Jesus’ immediate followers, mostly his 12 disciples, probably did not immediately identify this failure, because after Jesus’ body was likely stolen and concealed, a rumor spread that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. A sense of optimism overcame their grief about his execution and renewed some hope that he was a true messiah. If they had known then that there was to be no return in the near or long-term future, they likely would have abandoned any further activity. Despite this resurgence in their faith, they never agreed with Paul’s concept of Jesus as being divine. Anything written in the Bible to suggest that they did is probably a result of later editing by some of Paul’s followers. Such a belief would have been an exceptional departure from the Jewish faith.

ah but no worries, continue to tapdance and wave your fingers in front of your own eyes while stamping your feet and trying to explain away the plethora of evidence that solidly and repetitively eviscerated the fictional book called the bible. carry on Q.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-07-2015, 11:54 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 11:29 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 10:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The democratic "State of Israel", in which the majority of its occupants are Arabs and secular Jews in NO WAY can be seen (except by biased delusional fools) to meet any sort of prediction for a restoration of the ancient KINGDOM of Israel. (But I guess I do see why you think prophecies were fulfilled if such flimsy out-of-the-ballpark nonsense can meet your criteria ... then actually ANYTHING can be seen to meet any prediction, and you have no standards).

You are not qualified for what you seem to think you are doing. Would one year be adequate for a physician's training ? Nope. You are a quack and a charlatan snake-oil salesman.

Too bad Q. You fail again.

oh that tired ol "prophesy of israel".....I dont think Q comprehends how millions of delusional believers can by sheer effort over time MAKE something appear to come true....it is like self-fulfilled prophesy. But as usual, they pretend to think one so called prophesy appearing to come true thousands of years later overcomes the HUNDREDS of prophesies never come to fruitation, or the fact that the false messiah jesus (which in itself is an oxymoronic concept as there is no such thing as an actual messiah) didn't follow through with the "foretold messiah prophesy." Rolleyes

List of 480 reasons christianity is false:

http://www.kyroot.com/

Another extensive breakdown:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies

Extensive list of falsified prophesies:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

and then my favorite never realized prophesy...jesus:

The Bible claims that Jesus made the following comment:

Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Jesus also advised against going to court over someone who steals something and also told people not to store up stocks or reserves for the future. Clearly, he thought the end was very near.

Likewise, Paul advised followers not to marry and that the end time was near. In this scripture he obviously believes that some of the people he is talking to will still be alive at the second coming.

I Thessalonians 4: 16-18

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

The obvious fact is that the second coming was not forthcoming at that time, or even close to being near. The 2000-year delay is a strong piece of evidence that Christianity is a failed religion.

The following quote from Stephen L. Harris, Professor Emeritus of Humanities and Religious Studies at California State University- Sacramento, completes this point with a devastating argument. Remember that Jesus was a Jew who had no intention to deviate from the Hebrew scriptures:

“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.). Instead of freeing Jews from oppressors and thereby fulfilling God’s ancient promises—for land, nationhood, kingship, and blessing—Jesus died a “shameful” death, defeated by the very political powers the Messiah was prophesied to overcome. Indeed, the Hebrew prophets did not foresee that Israel’s savior would be executed as a common criminal by Gentiles, making Jesus’ crucifixion a “stumbling block” to scripturally literate Jews. (1 Cor.1:23)”

Jesus’ immediate followers, mostly his 12 disciples, probably did not immediately identify this failure, because after Jesus’ body was likely stolen and concealed, a rumor spread that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. A sense of optimism overcame their grief about his execution and renewed some hope that he was a true messiah. If they had known then that there was to be no return in the near or long-term future, they likely would have abandoned any further activity. Despite this resurgence in their faith, they never agreed with Paul’s concept of Jesus as being divine. Anything written in the Bible to suggest that they did is probably a result of later editing by some of Paul’s followers. Such a belief would have been an exceptional departure from the Jewish faith.

ah but no worries, continue to tapdance and wave your fingers in front of your own eyes while stamping your feet and trying to explain away the plethora of evidence that solidly and repetitively eviscerated the fictional book called the bible. carry on Q.

“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.). Instead of freeing Jews from oppressors and thereby fulfilling God’s ancient promises—for land, nationhood, kingship, and blessing—Jesus died a “shameful” death, defeated by the very political powers the Messiah was prophesied to overcome. Indeed, the Hebrew prophets did not foresee that Israel’s savior would be executed as a common criminal by Gentiles, making Jesus’ crucifixion a “stumbling block” to scripturally literate Jews. (1 Cor.1:23)”

Exactly.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-07-2015, 12:11 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 10:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ... since you'd be one heckuva preacher/apologist! ...

I don't think so. He's intellectually honest; the congregation would not hear what it wants to hear and would look for their dose of preaching elsewhere.
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17-07-2015, 06:47 PM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2015 11:34 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 10:04 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Mark,

I spend an inordinate amount of time (gently or trying to do so gently) refuting Mormons, JW's, Catholics, etc. regarding their misuse, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of scripture. At least they are trying to be in God's will somehow and at least they believe (if not fervently) the scripture is true--that is, we actually TALK about scriptural concepts even if they disagree with me 100%. I don't see an overwhelming need to discuss tons of scripture with you that you are wresting wholly out of context and logic. And yes, I'll play the context card many times because it's important. An airline's jet is not very wieldy on the ground, in the context of the air it works modern wonders.

Slow down your stream-of-consciousness rebellion against God and His chosen, Paul. Pick one or two ideas, and one or two verses to interpret. Then we can discuss them or I can (attempt to) correct you if I can, and indeed and of course, if you need correction. But it's near-useless posting dozens of ideas across five posts every time to me, as millions of people receive Paul, like I do, as someone sincere and very learned in the OT, its interpretation and theology. A formerly aggressive person who became extremely gentle to others and saw thousands of people trust Jesus.

I feel like a hog or troll as it is because I try to reply to most everyone on these threads, forcing me at times to do five or six posts at once. I will not reply to you if you just spew out rhetoric not wishing to be debated--I will reply if you limit your rhetoric to one or two ideas you'd like me to consider.

Thanks for your consideration. Like Jesus, I often feel a few pithy statements are more insightful than "Here's everything I can think of that shows over and over again my mom and dad and Q and every person who loves Jesus is totally deceived!" That won't play well in public or on a forum IMHO.

Thanks!

"I spend an inordinate amount of time (gently or trying to do so gently) refuting Mormons, JW's, Catholics, etc. regarding their misuse, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of scripture."

I bet you do. There's a reason for that. The Bible is full of ambiguities. Nearly every verse is a product of people trying to reinterpret a tradition, upstage a rival story, assimilate an old myth, or create a new one, so different authors had different ideas about God and his relationship with humankind.

In the Old Testament, “Yahweh” was judgmental, sexist, punitive, and an anti-Gentile racist. Yahweh told the Jews they were really special and that he had a never-ending covenant with them. In the New Testament Paul wrote that God’s favorites, the Jews, were now the enemies of the entire human race. Paul claimed a new covenant cancelled the old; that the Torah was redundant. But Jesus and James taught that the Torah must be obeyed. Paul proposed that people would win God’s favor through faith, but James jotted that faith was futile without good works. Is God a pro-Jewish dictator who will reward your good works, or an anti-Jewish oddball who wants your faith? That depends on which part of the Bible you read and your preacher’s prejudices.

Paul’s instructions were inconsistent and confusing, and his Christ figure, supposedly the same Jesus of the Gospels, probably was not. Paul, the most important creator of Christianity, would not share his Christ’s wisdom with the world, because his Christ was a ghost who did not get philosophical, whereas the rabbi Jesus of the Gospels was full of wise anecdotes and parables.

The New Testament authors could not come to a consensus about Jesus. In Matthew, Jesus was the Jewish Messiah who told his disciples to preach only to Jews, yet in John Jesus scorned his fellow Jews. Jesus taught people to forgive seventy times seven times, but condemned his own enemies to hell. Jesus said,
“...blessed are the peacemakers,”
and then said that he did not come to bring peace to the world but a sword. Jesus put Peter in charge and gave him the keys to the kingdom of heaven, then said no one was to be boss. Jesus’ own brother did not document that Jesus rose from the dead, and Mark, one of Jesus’ first biographers, also neglected to mention whom the famous ghost appeared to.

God, Christ and Jesus had mismatched personalities, yet were said to be one, had odd allegiances, as they loved or loathed the Jews, and irreconcilable rules, as they followed or forsook the Law. Each character frequently contradicted himself. No wonder Christians are often confused!

The Bible is a quagmire of muddled ideas! It had too many contributors to be consistent. Anyone can quote some bit of the Bible to back up almost any belief. The philosopher Daniel Dennet claims that when we try to comprehend Christianity we are confronted with

“...a thicket in a swamp in a fog.”

Strangely enough, if “God’s” rules were more reliable, the Bible probably would not be so popular. The contradictions can be used to excuse lame brained, antiquated ideas.

Some people unfairly blame themselves for not understanding the Bible, or waste countless hours trying to rationalize half-baked interpretations put forward by over imaginative preachers (such as you, Q). They might better spend their time trusting their own reasoning instead.
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17-07-2015, 06:55 PM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2015 11:39 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 10:04 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Mark,

I spend an inordinate amount of time (gently or trying to do so gently) refuting Mormons, JW's, Catholics, etc. regarding their misuse, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of scripture. At least they are trying to be in God's will somehow and at least they believe (if not fervently) the scripture is true--that is, we actually TALK about scriptural concepts even if they disagree with me 100%. I don't see an overwhelming need to discuss tons of scripture with you that you are wresting wholly out of context and logic. And yes, I'll play the context card many times because it's important. An airline's jet is not very wieldy on the ground, in the context of the air it works modern wonders.

Slow down your stream-of-consciousness rebellion against God and His chosen, Paul. Pick one or two ideas, and one or two verses to interpret. Then we can discuss them or I can (attempt to) correct you if I can, and indeed and of course, if you need correction. But it's near-useless posting dozens of ideas across five posts every time to me, as millions of people receive Paul, like I do, as someone sincere and very learned in the OT, its interpretation and theology. A formerly aggressive person who became extremely gentle to others and saw thousands of people trust Jesus.

I feel like a hog or troll as it is because I try to reply to most everyone on these threads, forcing me at times to do five or six posts at once. I will not reply to you if you just spew out rhetoric not wishing to be debated--I will reply if you limit your rhetoric to one or two ideas you'd like me to consider.

Thanks for your consideration. Like Jesus, I often feel a few pithy statements are more insightful than "Here's everything I can think of that shows over and over again my mom and dad and Q and every person who loves Jesus is totally deceived!" That won't play well in public or on a forum IMHO.

Thanks!

"I don't see an overwhelming need to discuss tons of scripture with you that you are wresting wholly out of context and logic."

So it's got nothing to to do with you not knowing the subject then? Yeah, right. Facepalm

The reality is is that you do not understand the context or logic. You do not understand who the authors of your babble were and why they wrote. You prefer to just assume that all scripture is the "word of God." You then rearrange the context to make the words mean what you would like them to say. I can't think of a more intellectually bankrupt way to read ancient writings.
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17-07-2015, 07:00 PM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2015 11:47 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 10:04 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Mark,

I spend an inordinate amount of time (gently or trying to do so gently) refuting Mormons, JW's, Catholics, etc. regarding their misuse, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of scripture. At least they are trying to be in God's will somehow and at least they believe (if not fervently) the scripture is true--that is, we actually TALK about scriptural concepts even if they disagree with me 100%. I don't see an overwhelming need to discuss tons of scripture with you that you are wresting wholly out of context and logic. And yes, I'll play the context card many times because it's important. An airline's jet is not very wieldy on the ground, in the context of the air it works modern wonders.

Slow down your stream-of-consciousness rebellion against God and His chosen, Paul. Pick one or two ideas, and one or two verses to interpret. Then we can discuss them or I can (attempt to) correct you if I can, and indeed and of course, if you need correction. But it's near-useless posting dozens of ideas across five posts every time to me, as millions of people receive Paul, like I do, as someone sincere and very learned in the OT, its interpretation and theology. A formerly aggressive person who became extremely gentle to others and saw thousands of people trust Jesus.

I feel like a hog or troll as it is because I try to reply to most everyone on these threads, forcing me at times to do five or six posts at once. I will not reply to you if you just spew out rhetoric not wishing to be debated--I will reply if you limit your rhetoric to one or two ideas you'd like me to consider.

Thanks for your consideration. Like Jesus, I often feel a few pithy statements are more insightful than "Here's everything I can think of that shows over and over again my mom and dad and Q and every person who loves Jesus is totally deceived!" That won't play well in public or on a forum IMHO.

Thanks!

"Slow down your stream-of-consciousness rebellion against God and His chosen, Paul."

No. Every word I write is carefully chosen, and everything I write can be backed up with evidence. You are just trying to denigrate what I write by implying that it comes from my imagination.

God doesn't exist, so I'm not rebelling against "him." Paul was not "chosen" by anyone but his own imagination, other than perhaps his imperial masters.
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