Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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20-07-2015, 12:19 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
You sir, are a heretic!

How dare you quote the Book of Shoe at us out-of-context.

You don't know how it was, back in those days. It was totally possible to have so many children you didn't know what to do. That is why beating of the children was required. Nay, instructed by Holy Writ! Read the verse in full context:

"There was an old woman who lived in a shoe.
She had so many children, she didn't know what to do.
She gave them some broth without any bread;
And whipped them all soundly and put them to bed."

Are you willing to whip your children before bedtime, in obedience to the Book of Shoe? Are you?

Didn't think so, nonbeliever.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-07-2015, 03:51 AM (This post was last modified: 20-07-2015 04:28 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(20-07-2015 12:19 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  You sir, are a heretic!

How dare you quote the Book of Shoe at us out-of-context.

You don't know how it was, back in those days. It was totally possible to have so many children you didn't know what to do. That is why beating of the children was required. Nay, instructed by Holy Writ! Read the verse in full context:

"There was an old woman who lived in a shoe.
She had so many children, she didn't know what to do.
She gave them some broth without any bread;
And whipped them all soundly and put them to bed."

Are you willing to whip your children before bedtime, in obedience to the Book of Shoe? Are you?

Didn't think so, nonbeliever.

Gosh, you must be right. Never thought of it like that. Consider

The children are the tribes of of Israel, no?

And God punishes them because he foreknew they were to refuse the bread ( ie Christ, who is the bread of life Big Grin) I'm getting it!! I'm lurning!! It's all Hermanewtics Smartass Praise the lordBowing

The shoe fits. Let's beat our kids. Thumbsup
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20-07-2015, 05:52 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(20-07-2015 03:51 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I'm getting it!! I'm lurning!! It's all Hermanewtics Smartass Praise the lordBowing

Herman Munster will richly and abundantly shower His blessings upon thee.

Yes

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-07-2015, 10:03 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 10:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 10:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I have 30 credits (?) in Religion studies plus a little Greek and Hebrew as you know. I believe you have likewise forgotten that Paul spoke extensively of God's foreknowledge (see Romans 9, 10 and 11, etc.) and as previously stated, the complexities of a Hebrew prophet included exhorting and encouraging the people of THEIR day while foretelling FUTURE events.

Unfortunately for you personally (or fortunately if you come to Jesus, since you'd be one heckuva preacher/apologist!) you will have to travel back to 1948 and undo the State of Israel, etc. to break Bible prophecies! Consider... Drinking Beverage

The democratic "State of Israel", in which the majority of its occupants are Arabs and secular Jews in NO WAY can be seen (except by biased delusional fools) to meet any sort of prediction for a restoration of the ancient KINGDOM of Israel. (But I guess I do see why you think prophecies were fulfilled if such flimsy out-of-the-ballpark nonsense can meet your criteria ... then actually ANYTHING can be seen to meet any prediction, and you have no standards).

You are not qualified for what you seem to think you are doing. Would one year be adequate for a physician's training ? Nope. You are a quack and a charlatan snake-oil salesman.

Too bad Q. You fail again.

It would be great if you actually read my posts--I explained how Israel of 1948 fulfilled restoration prophecies and where the Bible parses the return of a theocratic kingdom.

Then again, you have confirmatory bias.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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20-07-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 10:22 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm not "very" biased, just biased. Hundreds of millions of Christians have long accepted Paul's conversion, because Paul, like Peter and others, rest their main case for the authenticity of Jesus Christ on fulfilled OT prophecies rather than eyewitness testimony. I can guide you to scripture references for this point (although I believe I've raised this issue two dozen times just this past month alone on various TTA threads!).

And aren't all TTA members thrilled that we can look at the facts of Bible prophecies fulfilled rather than eyewitness testimony (as hearsay)? Angel

OK, why don't you give me some scripture references where Paul rests his case on fulfilled OT prophecies -- because I can't say I've ever seen a single one of those. Paul rests his case on "the gospel he received", Jesus appearing to him, etc. -- i.e., on personal revelation. I don't recall him ever even mentioning OT prophecies. If he does, please show me where.

His case regarding the claims of Jesus Christ to kingship, Messiah-ship, etc. not his claims to have appeared to Paul. For Peter, Paul et al as I mentioned, it was far more significant that Jesus was THE Christ via prophecy fulfillment. This far outweighed their personal encounters, especially since the Mosaic Law requires multiple witnesses to affirm individual facts. There are constant, continual references to OT prophecies throughout all of Paul's writings... Q.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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20-07-2015, 10:08 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-07-2015 07:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 10:04 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Mark,

I spend an inordinate amount of time (gently or trying to do so gently) refuting Mormons, JW's, Catholics, etc. regarding their misuse, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of scripture. At least they are trying to be in God's will somehow and at least they believe (if not fervently) the scripture is true--that is, we actually TALK about scriptural concepts even if they disagree with me 100%. I don't see an overwhelming need to discuss tons of scripture with you that you are wresting wholly out of context and logic. And yes, I'll play the context card many times because it's important. An airline's jet is not very wieldy on the ground, in the context of the air it works modern wonders.

Slow down your stream-of-consciousness rebellion against God and His chosen, Paul. Pick one or two ideas, and one or two verses to interpret. Then we can discuss them or I can (attempt to) correct you if I can, and indeed and of course, if you need correction. But it's near-useless posting dozens of ideas across five posts every time to me, as millions of people receive Paul, like I do, as someone sincere and very learned in the OT, its interpretation and theology. A formerly aggressive person who became extremely gentle to others and saw thousands of people trust Jesus.

I feel like a hog or troll as it is because I try to reply to most everyone on these threads, forcing me at times to do five or six posts at once. I will not reply to you if you just spew out rhetoric not wishing to be debated--I will reply if you limit your rhetoric to one or two ideas you'd like me to consider.

Thanks for your consideration. Like Jesus, I often feel a few pithy statements are more insightful than "Here's everything I can think of that shows over and over again my mom and dad and Q and every person who loves Jesus is totally deceived!" That won't play well in public or on a forum IMHO.

Thanks!

"I will not reply to you if you just spew out rhetoric not wishing to be debated..."

You are obviously misrepresenting me. This is what I wrote to you...

"Let's get down to the nuts and bolts of Christianity. I open the door to you. Tell us who Paul was, where he sourced his ideas, why he did what he did, why he is respected by Christians, and how his letters got into the Bible, and when. Tell us what Paul knew of the Jesus of the gospels. Tell us about Paul's relationship with the followers of Jesus. Tell us about the relationship between today's gospels and Paul's writings.

This is your chance to educate us. With facts. We want facts, and only then your opinions. Cut out the ad hominems, the appeals to authority, and don't change the topic, and answer all the questions you are asked. I'll try to do the same."

I want to debate you. You won't take me on because deep down you know you'll be shot off at the kneecaps. You're not intellectually honest enough and brave enough to engage me in a real debate.

Again, I won't take you on in a debate where you rapid-fire post eight or nine messages. Keep it neat.

Have you heard of N.T. Wright? He has released a two-volume, 1,600-page set on Paul answering the questions you've posted above and more. Start there...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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20-07-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(20-07-2015 10:03 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 10:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The democratic "State of Israel", in which the majority of its occupants are Arabs and secular Jews in NO WAY can be seen (except by biased delusional fools) to meet any sort of prediction for a restoration of the ancient KINGDOM of Israel. (But I guess I do see why you think prophecies were fulfilled if such flimsy out-of-the-ballpark nonsense can meet your criteria ... then actually ANYTHING can be seen to meet any prediction, and you have no standards).

You are not qualified for what you seem to think you are doing. Would one year be adequate for a physician's training ? Nope. You are a quack and a charlatan snake-oil salesman.

Too bad Q. You fail again.

It would be great if you actually read my posts--I explained how Israel of 1948 fulfilled restoration prophecies and where the Bible parses the return of a theocratic kingdom.

Then again, you have confirmatory bias.

I read your posts (although I don't know why). Your "explanation" was inadequate.
It is you who have the *need* to desperately conjure up some stupid attemped "fulllment" proofs, as your faith is very weak. There almost never was "the" Israel to restore, anyway. But you wouldn't know that as you know virtually nothing about the real ancient history of the region. All you know are the mythic tales assembled in the OT.

Granting for the sake of argument, what you mean by "prophecy", if you were to ask one of your prophet dudes IF their prediction included a secular mostly non-Jewish democracy, they would say "WTAF are you even talking about ?"

Grow up, and get real. They had NO knowledge of the future, and you know it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-07-2015, 10:43 AM (This post was last modified: 20-07-2015 10:54 AM by Grasshopper.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(20-07-2015 10:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 10:22 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  OK, why don't you give me some scripture references where Paul rests his case on fulfilled OT prophecies -- because I can't say I've ever seen a single one of those. Paul rests his case on "the gospel he received", Jesus appearing to him, etc. -- i.e., on personal revelation. I don't recall him ever even mentioning OT prophecies. If he does, please show me where.

His case regarding the claims of Jesus Christ to kingship, Messiah-ship, etc. not his claims to have appeared to Paul. For Peter, Paul et al as I mentioned, it was far more significant that Jesus was THE Christ via prophecy fulfillment. This far outweighed their personal encounters, especially since the Mosaic Law requires multiple witnesses to affirm individual facts. There are constant, continual references to OT prophecies throughout all of Paul's writings... Q.

Why then can't you provide me with a simple example of just one of them? That's all I ask. I'm not about to re-read the complete works of Paul searching for mentions of Old Testament prophecies. If they are as ubiquitous as you claim, you should have no problem pointing me to just one of them.

Furthermore, Jesus himself said (if you can believe the Gospels) that Peter's knowledge that he (Jesus) was the Messiah was a gift directly from God, and couldn't have come to him from any person or any human reasoning. So it had nothing to do with OT prophecies.

I think you have OT prophecies on the brain, and are trying to put them everywhere else, whether or not they are actually there. Show us some examples or shut up.
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20-07-2015, 05:04 PM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2015 03:17 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(20-07-2015 10:08 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 07:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "I will not reply to you if you just spew out rhetoric not wishing to be debated..."

You are obviously misrepresenting me. This is what I wrote to you...

"Let's get down to the nuts and bolts of Christianity. I open the door to you. Tell us who Paul was, where he sourced his ideas, why he did what he did, why he is respected by Christians, and how his letters got into the Bible, and when. Tell us what Paul knew of the Jesus of the gospels. Tell us about Paul's relationship with the followers of Jesus. Tell us about the relationship between today's gospels and Paul's writings.

This is your chance to educate us. With facts. We want facts, and only then your opinions. Cut out the ad hominems, the appeals to authority, and don't change the topic, and answer all the questions you are asked. I'll try to do the same."

I want to debate you. You won't take me on because deep down you know you'll be shot off at the kneecaps. You're not intellectually honest enough and brave enough to engage me in a real debate.

Again, I won't take you on in a debate where you rapid-fire post eight or nine messages. Keep it neat.

Have you heard of N.T. Wright? He has released a two-volume, 1,600-page set on Paul answering the questions you've posted above and more. Start there...

"Again, I won't take you on in a debate where you rapid-fire post eight or nine messages. Keep it neat."

Aw....come on.... please poke your nose out of the trench.... just one more time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6AtG4pmX_Y
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20-07-2015, 05:13 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(20-07-2015 05:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Herman Munster will richly and abundantly shower His blessings upon thee.

(20-07-2015 10:08 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Again, I won't take you on in a debate where you rapid-fire post eight or nine messages. Keep it neat.




#sigh
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