Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice

[TheInquisition]

(22-07-2015 09:23 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  

(22-07-2015 10:43 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You missed my point utterly. We are more knowledgeable than ancients but this does not mean we are higher in IQ or wiser. Wisdom is in applying knowledge for life, health and society. Much wisdom is in the scriptures.

Where do you live where most born agains are in communes? Where I live, they are government officials running for U.S. President, in my workplace, my schools, my local shopping centers. This is getting weird, Mark...

These jokers live just up the road....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G98HpaszT5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVw0eFmnQtM

That second video was disturbing, towards the end he tells the reporter he's going to want to talk to him in less than ten years time. It might as well have been Jim Jones sitting in that chair.

All you have to do is talk about Jesus and manipulate people, so-fucking-evil.

[Mark Fulton]

(23-07-2015 05:14 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  

(22-07-2015 09:23 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  These jokers live just up the road....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G98HpaszT5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVw0eFmnQtM

He reminds me of Yahoo Serious, but not near as harmless:





Maybe Q shouldn't watch that, I think control and manipulation of people like that is his deepest fantasy.

I never "got" yahoo serious. Even though I'm a Tasmanian.

[Mark Fulton]

(23-07-2015 05:52 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  

(22-07-2015 09:23 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  These jokers live just up the road....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G98HpaszT5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVw0eFmnQtM

That second video was disturbing, towards the end he tells the reporter he's going to want to talk to him in less than ten years time. It might as well have been Jim Jones sitting in that chair.

All you have to do is talk about Jesus and manipulate people, so-fucking-evil.

yeah. The dickhead is so fucking ordinary though.

[The Q Continuum]

(22-07-2015 11:07 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  By the way, I'm still waiting for just one actual example of Paul basing his belief in Christ's divinity on Old Testament prophecies. And all I'm hearing is...

First thing that comes to mind is the entire book of Hebrews! Understand that almost zero of Paul's ideas are anything but exposition of OT scriptures and prophecy. (Understand I believe Paul wrote Hebrews.)

Just from the first chapter of Hebrews:

For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

7 In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”

8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy."

10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”

13 To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”?

14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Or we could look at other epistles--but since Mark and BB try to tell me that what I think are some of Paul's letters aren't, I guess I can use Hebrews just as well!

[The Q Continuum]

(22-07-2015 09:05 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  

(22-07-2015 10:43 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You missed my point utterly. We are more knowledgeable than ancients but this does not mean we are higher in IQ or wiser. Wisdom is in applying knowledge for life, health and society. Much wisdom is in the scriptures.

Where do you live where most born agains are in communes? Where I live, they are government officials running for U.S. President, in my workplace, my schools, my local shopping centers. This is getting weird, Mark...

No...I got it. You missed my point, which is the important one.

Nowadays we have secular law, which usually protects the rights of individuals and minorities. The law in your babble does not.

Modern societies respect women (that's half the human race.) We don't bad mouth, or kill them, for losing their virginity. We don't allow rape. We don't marry them off when they are 12 years old. We don't insist they obey their husbands. Daughters are not considered their father's property. The babble treats women like cattle and as the property of their father's and their hushand's.

We like and respect homosexuals. The Bible doesn't.

We value thinkers and scientists. The Bible doesn't.

We don't patronise people by promising then heaven and we don't threaten them with everlasting hell. The Bible does.

We treat mental illness with supplements and medications, and they work. The Bible treats mental illness with promises of miracles and prayers and that never works.

We understand and embrace human sexuality for what it is. The Bible turns it into an evil thing.

We don't say "turn the other cheek" and "love your enemies," we say respect your fellow man, but defend yourself if necessary.

Every year we make advances in chemistry, physics, biology, medicine, law, computing and communication. The babble never makes any advances, and denigrates any new thought. The battle is stuck, set in stone, unable to change or adapt.

We don't say "blessed are the poor in spirit", and "dream about heaven," and don't worry about tomorrow." We say make your life on earth meaningful... it is the only life you will ever have.

The Bible was written to control people and to give kings and priests an income. Secular law, by and large, has been written so that all members of society get a fair go.

Most modern societies do not pander to priests and other religious authorities. We encourage people to think for themselves, and to use resources to make their lives better.

So don't give me your "much wisdom in the scriptures" bullshit. You are reading your babble with rose coloured glasses.

And we're back here again? How it is that billions over millennia embrace both testaments without seeing what you see it, how you see it. Of course you'd say none of it is your modernist bias but rather, every Christian ever is in--what's that word atheists hate?--denial.

Proverbs is filled with wisdom. It has individual verses you can test and review inductively to see their truth, beauty and wisdom. I can't recall arguments at TTA during my brief tenure here re: Proverbs. Only assaults like those you are making that out of context, sound unlike modern "wisdom", but which in context, show the folly of rejecting God and the wisdom of trusting God!

Pick one or two of your assaults only if you want to discuss them. The rhetoric is hateful and the energy wasted.

[The Q Continuum]

(22-07-2015 11:43 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  

(22-07-2015 10:41 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  What tools are you using (other than a bias against miracles including prediction) to decide what in the Bible is metaphor and what is literal? I don't wish to argue the obvious context of Deut 18 with you, but you seem pretty sure it is literal, not metaphorical, but that several thousand prophecies are metaphors and not literal statements.

Your question betrays your ignorance of ancient Near Eastern literature, and it's literary types. Again, you REALLY need to get an education.

I'll pay my own expenses to debate you in public at any university, for with statements of deep, evidentiary facts like "your question shows your ignorance, Q" I will win every debate, every time.

We all know you're angry. Now produce some facts, why don'cha?

[Bucky Ball]

(23-07-2015 09:29 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  

(22-07-2015 11:43 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Your question betrays your ignorance of ancient Near Eastern literature, and it's literary types. Again, you REALLY need to get an education.

I'll pay my own expenses to debate you in public at any university, for with statements of deep, evidentiary facts like "your question shows your ignorance, Q" I will win every debate, every time.

We all know you're angry. Now produce some facts, why don'cha?

The "facts" are aready out there, and everyone except you seems to have a grasp of them. No one is "angry" you pathetic ignorant Fundamentalist.

[Bucky Ball]

(23-07-2015 09:27 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  And we're back here again? How it is that billions over millennia embrace both testaments without seeing what you see it, how you see it. Of course you'd say none of it is your modernist bias but rather, every Christian ever is in--what's that word atheists hate?--denial.

99.99 % of them "over millenia" actually never really read the entire thing, and had it interpreted FOR them by Fundie idiot apologists, not unlike yourself. I can't believe you're actually using that bullshit argument. The one here in real "denial" is you.

(23-07-2015 09:27 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Proverbs is filled with wisdom. It has individual verses you can test and review inductively to see their truth, beauty and wisdom. I can't recall arguments at TTA during my brief tenure here re: Proverbs. Only assaults like those you are making that out of context, sound unlike modern "wisdom", but which in context, show the folly of rejecting God and the wisdom of trusting God!

None it came from a god. ALL of it came from a specific (limited) culture. All cultures have *wisdom literature* you ignoramus. No one is saying there is *no* wisdom there. It's human literature and contains some culturally relative wisdom, just like ALL wisdom literature produced by ALL cultures. Your Babble is not *special*.

[Grasshopper]

(23-07-2015 09:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  

(22-07-2015 11:07 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  By the way, I'm still waiting for just one actual example of Paul basing his belief in Christ's divinity on Old Testament prophecies. And all I'm hearing is...

First thing that comes to mind is the entire book of Hebrews! Understand that almost zero of Paul's ideas are anything but exposition of OT scriptures and prophecy. (Understand I believe Paul wrote Hebrews.)

Just from the first chapter of Hebrews:

For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

7 In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”

8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy."

10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”

13 To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”?

14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Or we could look at other epistles--but since Mark and BB try to tell me that what I think are some of Paul's letters aren't, I guess I can use Hebrews just as well!

This might be covered in one of the videos Bucky Ball posted (I haven't had time to watch them), but I would expect you to know anyway that the consensus of Biblical scholars is that Hebrews was almost certainly not written by Paul. So you're still striking out. How about you provide me with an example from an Epistle that was actually written by Paul? I believe there are 7 of those. Hebrews is not one of them. It's not even one of the disputed ones.

[GirlyMan]

(23-07-2015 09:27 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The rhetoric is hateful and the energy wasted.

Might be wasted on you but not on me. Watching you dance around in your cute little clown costume is fucking hilarious.