Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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26-07-2015, 12:10 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-07-2015 12:02 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(25-07-2015 11:51 PM)Alla Wrote:  1)If you are familiar with the teachings of the Bible then why did you mention only Alla and Bill? Don't you know that there are three of Them?
2)What is the mission of the third One?
And Alla never said that she will kill you if you do not believe JimBob. Alla said that you can not live with Her if you do not believe JimBob. Because you can not become like Her

Are you trying to sound like a Poe's Law violation?

In what way would the action of "the Holy Spirit" possibly fit into my point? But alright, if it makes you happy, I'll add it in.

1. I am born totally unaware of this "debt" which I supposedly owe to Alla.
2. JimBob comes along and tells me, "hey you owe this debt to She Who Owns All Money, Alla, who is really pissed at you for it".
3. JimBob says, "But don't worry, Bill Gates already paid this debt. It's all right here in this book. Bill Gates pays for everyone. See? Says right here. Everyone!"
4. JimBob says, "Since you owed that big debt, and Bill Gates paid it, you now owe Bill your gratitude."
5. JimBob says, "I work for Bill, and Bill wants you to work for me for an hour every Sunday, and give me 10% of your income, and to go tell others about the debt they owe to Bill because of what they used to owe to Alla."
6. JimBob says, "If you don't do all this, Alla is going to come kill you. Oh, and don't listen to SueEllen, or go work for her; she doesn't even know Bill Gates, and doesn't have access to Alla's money, no matter what SueEllen says. Stan or Eric, either. They're all wrong. Only I know Bill Gates and his Book of Debts."
7. JimBob says, "There's also this invisible ghost who will inhabit your body and help you feel like you're doing good work on my behalf. His name is Boo. He'll show you what to do."
8. "Really, they're all the same person", JimBob says, "Even though one is a ghost-feeling and one is the son of the other, and they do different things, they're really all one person."
9. I punch JimBob in the nose for wasting my time and trying to swindle me.
Where does the Bible (prophets of God or JimBob) testify that Alla, Bill and Boo are one person/the same person?
Where does the Bible or prophets or JimBob say that Boo is invisible ghost who will inhabit your body and help you feel like you're doing good work on my behalf?

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26-07-2015, 12:11 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-07-2015 12:03 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  And yes, as long as Hell is part of Judeo-Christian theology, then it's "kill", in my example.
what is hell according to the prophets of God?

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26-07-2015, 12:12 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-07-2015 12:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  You will not explain it because you don't actually know what it means.
OK,Wink

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26-07-2015, 12:27 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
JimBob and his Book say both three and one:
Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord. (Deuteronomy 6:4) There is one God (1 Timothy 2:5). Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me (Isaiah 44:6). The Bible speaks of the Father as God (Philippians 1:2), Jesus as God (Titus 2:13), and the Holy Spirit as God (Acts 5:3–4). The Bible also indicates that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. For example, since the Father sent the Son into the world (John 3:16), He cannot be the same person as the Son. Likewise, after the Son returned to the Father (John 16:10), the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit into the world (John 14:26; Acts 2:33). Therefore, the Holy Spirit must be distinct from the Father and the Son.

The Holy Spirit fills you and tells you what to do:

They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tonguesa as the Spirit enabled them. (Acts 2:3-4)

They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: 'By what power or what name did you do this?' Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: 'Rulers and elders of the people!...' (Acts 4:7-8)

Need I go on? I'm not here to have an "explain your own theology to you" lesson.

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26-07-2015, 12:30 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-07-2015 12:11 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 12:03 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  And yes, as long as Hell is part of Judeo-Christian theology, then it's "kill", in my example.
what is hell according to the prophets of God?

You mean this? Is this why you keep asking questions about liars?

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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26-07-2015, 01:06 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-07-2015 12:02 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(25-07-2015 11:51 PM)Alla Wrote:  1)If you are familiar with the teachings of the Bible then why did you mention only Alla and Bill? Don't you know that there are three of Them?
2)What is the mission of the third One?
And Alla never said that she will kill you if you do not believe JimBob. Alla said that you can not live with Her if you do not believe JimBob. Because you can not become like Her

Are you trying to sound like a Poe's Law violation?

In what way would the action of "the Holy Spirit" possibly fit into my point? But alright, if it makes you happy, I'll add it in.

1. I am born totally unaware of this "debt" which I supposedly owe to Alla.
2. JimBob comes along and tells me, "hey you owe this debt to She Who Owns All Money, Alla, who is really pissed at you for it".
3. JimBob says, "But don't worry, Bill Gates already paid this debt. It's all right here in this book. Bill Gates pays for everyone. See? Says right here. Everyone!"
4. JimBob says, "Since you owed that big debt, and Bill Gates paid it, you now owe Bill your gratitude."
5. JimBob says, "I work for Bill, and Bill wants you to work for me for an hour every Sunday, and give me 10% of your income, and to go tell others about the debt they owe to Bill because of what they used to owe to Alla."
6. JimBob says, "If you don't do all this, Alla is going to come kill you. Oh, and don't listen to SueEllen, or go work for her; she doesn't even know Bill Gates, and doesn't have access to Alla's money, no matter what SueEllen says. Stan or Eric, either. They're all wrong. Only I know Bill Gates and his Book of Debts."
7. JimBob says, "There's also this invisible ghost who will inhabit your body and help you feel like you're doing good work on my behalf. His name is Boo. He'll show you what to do."
8. "Really, they're all the same person", JimBob says, "Even though one is a ghost-feeling and one is the son of the other, and they do different things, they're really all one person."
9. I punch JimBob in the nose for wasting my time and trying to swindle me.

Haha. I like no 10. We need to empower people like Alla to punch their preachers on the nose.
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26-07-2015, 01:34 AM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2015 08:43 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(25-07-2015 11:18 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(25-07-2015 11:05 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Yes we are, because we are born human, imperfect beings. "Sin" by this definition is inevitable, ergo we are born into this debt, even if we're (according to your particular theology) not sinning the moment we're born.
To be imperfect(mortal) doesn't mean that you are in debt or a sinner. It is not your fault you are born mortal. That is why in order to become immortal one day you do not need to know about Jesus and what He has done for you. You do not need faith in Him you do not need keep His commandments. You do not have to do anything and you can not do anything to become perfect(meaning having immortal body).
(25-07-2015 11:05 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  At some point, someone has to come along and tell me about my "sins" and the "debt" I have incurred, because I was born not knowing it. That someone is JimBob, in my little parable, there.
When you lie someone has to tell you that you are sinning by doing it. If no one ever told you this, you are not going to be punished for what you do not know. Atonement covers this.

Alla, when you leave the ridiculous concept of immortality out of your statements you sometimes make sense...

"...you do not need to know about Jesus and what He has done for you. You do not need faith in Him you do not need keep His commandments. You do not have to do anything and you can not do anything to become perfect..."

You talk about atonement as if it were a fact. Yet atonement is just a silly idea made up by Paul many years after Jesus died. Jesus, if he ever existed, would have thought the idea preposterous.

Imagine for a moment that you are Jesus. Sad You are just about to die a very painful degrading death strung up naked on a cross. Hobo You are a dyed in the wool Jew, and you are really pissed off that the Romans are in charge of your country. You're so pissed off you get yourself in trouble with the Romans, which is why you're about to be crucified. Weeping

Imagine some smart ass Roman (Paul) invents a story that you're about to be killed so as to appease Yahweh for the sins of everyone in the Roman world.Gasp Imagine your bewilderment Huh and disgust Drooling at the idea that it was going to be promoted that this was what your impending death was all about. Angry

Now come back to the 21st-century. Does it not seem odd and rather macabre that some of today’s Christians worship a crucifix? As Jesus was tortured, humiliated and killed on a cross, is it not it in poor taste to eagerly advertise the fact? Facepalm What would Jesus think of that? If he were somehow alive today, would not his stomach turn at the sight of a crucifix? Drinking Beverage
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26-07-2015, 02:11 AM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2015 08:48 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-07-2015 12:11 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 12:03 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  And yes, as long as Hell is part of Judeo-Christian theology, then it's "kill", in my example.
what is hell according to the prophets of God?

Alla, you write

"what is hell according to the prophets of God?"

I wanna know who are the "prophets of God?"

Please give me a yes or no on the following individuals...

- Jim Jones
- David Koresh
- Paul of Tarsus
- Mohammed
- Q Continuum
- Joseph Smith
- Benny Hinn
- Girly man
- Saint Augustine
- Martin Luther
- Buffy the vampire slayer

Seems to me anyone can be a prophet. All you need is

- some charisma (Q excepted)
- balls (Buffy excepted)
- arrogance
- the right publisher
- guns or swords
- a mental illness (sorry Girly, everyone knows you're crazy)
- a pen (Mohammed excepted)
- gullible followers (I'd follow Buffy anywhere)
- a neurosis about sex
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26-07-2015, 06:23 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(25-07-2015 09:30 PM)Alla Wrote:  Would perfect God do imperfect justice? The answer is No
But God's Mercy is also always perfect.
So, how can perfect God do perfect Mercy without robbing perfect Justice?
The answer is Atonement by some one else.

Sorry, third-party substitutionary atonement does not result in "justice". It just creates a new injustice. This is one of the most insidious religious memes as it completely perverts the ideas of justice and morality.

Please explain exactly how punishing person (or animal) A for the actions of person B could ever be acceptable.

(25-07-2015 11:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  From glory of God. But I will not explain to you now what it means.

You play a strange little game with your "not now" posts. It comes across as smug and arrogant but that's what I have come to expect from most peddlers of woo.

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26-07-2015, 07:50 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(26-07-2015 01:34 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Now come back to the 21st-century. Does it not seem odd and rather macabre that some of today’s Christians worship a crucifix? As Jesus was tortured, humiliated and killed on a cross, is it not it in poor taste to eagerly advertise the fact? Facepalm What would Jesus think of that? If he were somehow alive today, would not his stomach turn at the sight of a crucifix? Drinking Beverage

I have actually lost Christian friends because I like to ask them (when drinking or more likely smoking together), "Dude, if Jesus had come during the French Revolution, do you think Christians would wear a razor blade on the chains around their necks, instead of a cross?"

For some reason this REALLY gets people mad! I honestly don't know why; I think it's hilarious! Laugh out load

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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