Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-07-2015, 03:51 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-07-2015 10:12 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 12:05 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No it does not "prove" anything. There is nothing about it that negates an infinite series of bangs and rebangs.

Your physics is not on a par with your JDEP knowledge, BB, if you are unaware that laws of entropy and conversation of energy (as well as time) negate your concept.

Today is today--we therefore cannot go back to an infinite past amount of days, only a finite amount.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infinite

And your understanding of mathematics is worse.

Your understanding of infinity is incorrect. An infinite extent means that one can go back any arbitrary finite amount, without bound. Your phrase "cannot go back to an infinite past amount of days" is mathematically meaningless.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
30-07-2015, 03:54 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-07-2015 02:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  Since the Book of Mormon story takes place in Mesoamerica, not North America, these comments are essentially irrelevant. A number of prominent non-LDS scholars believe that there were migrations to Mesoamerica from both Asia and the ancient Near East. Their beliefs are not proof, but neither are the beliefs of those who think there were no such migrations. Genetic studies are, in fact, incomplete, and none have been reported for the area where the Nephites and Lamanites lived. Nor would they account for intermarriage with other native groups. Nowhere does the Book of Mormon say that all Amerindians came from the Middle East.

No, the DNA evidence conclusively shows that that did not happen, either. The whole Nephite/Lamanite story is false.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Chas's post
30-07-2015, 10:55 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-07-2015 10:19 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ... Well, it’s nice to be popular. I’m the leading “troll” here, aren’t I? ...

You're not a troll. I haven't make an exhaustive check, but I'm pretty sure most if not all of your posts are courteous, even as rank opprobrium is flung at you from keyboards converted to trebuchets. Even I have been sharp and snarky and you've kept cool. So you're no troll. A troll drags nails across a chalkboard for the spite of it, and while much of what you have to say many of us vehemently dispute, you keep your fingernails in your pockets. I respect that.

I promised to respond to your response; I'll proceed in separate posts that follow.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Airportkid's post
30-07-2015, 11:53 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-07-2015 10:14 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 02:35 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hey Q,

I'm still waiting for your response to post 566. I put it there just for you.

"Only assaults like those you are making that out of context, sound unlike modern "wisdom", but which in context, show the folly of rejecting God and the wisdom of trusting God!...Pick one or two of your assaults only if you want to discuss them...."

Quote:Ok. Let's start with the Old Testament...sorry I've got a few more than "one or two".

I've asked multiple times for you to debate me rather than bomb me with ideas, concept and syllogisms. I don't have time to falsify 18 ideas every time you post, therefore I (am continuing to) ignore post 566.

"I've asked multiple times for you to debate me..."

Let's go to the boxing ring. You pick the topic.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-07-2015 10:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 10:12 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Your physics is not on a par with your JDEP knowledge, BB, if you are unaware that laws of entropy and conversation of energy (as well as time) negate your concept.

Today is today--we therefore cannot go back to an infinite past amount of days, only a finite amount.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infinite

You can take that up with Roger Penrose, (Steven Hawking's friend), it's his idea.
The dimensions that "froze out" as this universe coalesced are applicable ONLY to this universe, until we know better, FROM EVIDENCE, as well as any terms and concepts applicable to those dimensions. ANY term (such as "creation") that references a concept which requires time is therefore excluded from consideration, until the data supports it.

On the contrary, Q, it is you that lacks any understanding of the matter at hand.

Obviously.

I understand "froze out" as either theoretical or a suspension of laws including conservation of energy and entropy of energy--which implies you feel it is possible that natural laws are not inviolable, which further implies that miracles can happen. And I thank you for that assertion.

Of course... miracles exist, who said a natural law is inviolable? It's an inductive observation. If natural laws are immutable how was conservation violated in the beginning of this present universe? Oh that's right... because BB said so.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 12:59 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-07-2015 10:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 10:10 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I have demonstrated you were unfamiliar with the definition of the term.

PS. Are you saying # 3 is true or untrue?

You demonstrated no such thing. I asked for an explanation for your reasoning supporting the proper and timly application of those pejorative terms, and the standards you Fundie idiots use to apply them. Obviously you have none, and just think you're "superior" tossing them around in your hostility.

Begging your pardon, but your last 100 posts or so (from memory) almost without exception fulfill the very definition of scientism...

"The belief that the methods of natural science, or the categories and things recognized in natural science, form the only proper elements in any philosophical or other inquiry..."

Did you use inductive observation to prove that only inductive observations are valid? Have you weighed love and hate? Or determined their exact chemical nature?

It sounds to me that skeptical scientists should be agnostic and not fully atheist, at least not if they wish to apply science to metaphysics, because that really would be scientism...

I await your reply.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 01:05 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-07-2015 03:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 10:12 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Your physics is not on a par with your JDEP knowledge, BB, if you are unaware that laws of entropy and conversation of energy (as well as time) negate your concept.

Today is today--we therefore cannot go back to an infinite past amount of days, only a finite amount.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infinite

And your understanding of mathematics is worse.

Your understanding of infinity is incorrect. An infinite extent means that one can go back any arbitrary finite amount, without bound. Your phrase "cannot go back to an infinite past amount of days" is mathematically meaningless.

Please allow me to restate. You propose an infinite line in one direction, the past only. Today is today, tomorrow is the future. Today is the last day of all history. An infinite line would go in both directions, past and future. One can go back without bound but on the return trip, one finds a terminus here in July 2015 CE.

It is therefore not an infinite line and therefore the past lines of time cannot be infinite as the timeline would need to expand to all possibility in BOTH directions to be truly infinite. There are a finite number of days that STOP now at today (where we are both located, I hope!). Do not mistake an abstract infinite series with a concrete one. Our timeline is half-infinite at present, at best!

Luckily for both of us "mathematicians" you haven't yet explained how the universe collapses and re-expands perpetually without losing power in the process--or where all this present matter and energy came from... I think God made it.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 01:07 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(30-07-2015 10:55 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 10:19 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ... Well, it’s nice to be popular. I’m the leading “troll” here, aren’t I? ...

You're not a troll. I haven't make an exhaustive check, but I'm pretty sure most if not all of your posts are courteous, even as rank opprobrium is flung at you from keyboards converted to trebuchets. Even I have been sharp and snarky and you've kept cool. So you're no troll. A troll drags nails across a chalkboard for the spite of it, and while much of what you have to say many of us vehemently dispute, you keep your fingernails in your pockets. I respect that.

I promised to respond to your response; I'll proceed in separate posts that follow.

Thank you. Sincerely.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 01:12 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(31-07-2015 12:56 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 10:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You can take that up with Roger Penrose, (Steven Hawking's friend), it's his idea.
The dimensions that "froze out" as this universe coalesced are applicable ONLY to this universe, until we know better, FROM EVIDENCE, as well as any terms and concepts applicable to those dimensions. ANY term (such as "creation") that references a concept which requires time is therefore excluded from consideration, until the data supports it.

On the contrary, Q, it is you that lacks any understanding of the matter at hand.

Obviously.

I understand "froze out" as either theoretical or a suspension of laws including conservation of energy and entropy of energy--which implies you feel it is possible that natural laws are not inviolable, which further implies that miracles can happen. And I thank you for that assertion.

Of course... miracles exist, who said a natural law is inviolable? It's an inductive observation. If natural laws are immutable how was conservation violated in the beginning of this present universe? Oh that's right... because BB said so.

Nope. "Froze out" is just a euphamism for "Why and how the conditions then, produced what we observe now. Something about the conditions at the "Big Expansion" (cosmologists agree the "Big Bang" is a poor lable), produced the constants we observe here. That's all "froze out" means. We don't know if there is matter similar to what we observe in this one, in other universes, (if there are any others), or dimensions or anything similar at all that occurs here.

There are no "miracles". Anything that happens is "natural". Unusual or not. WHat happened at the Big Expansion was a perfectly natural event that violated nothing. We may not understand everything about it, but every time more is discovered, confidence that any woo, (such as you espouse) was involved, approaches zero. No woo, no miracles, no gods. There is evidence for none of that crap.

A "Biblical miracle" (which you would know if you had ever studied the Bible with a real scholar) is not an "extra" or "non-natural" event. It's a perfectly natural event in which a believer *sees the hand of God operating". Your definition would be marked wrong in a Biblical Studies exam.

The total energy of the univere is zero. Nothing about "conservation" was violated. Try reading "A Universe From Nothing" (Krauss).

Amen. Alleluia. Praise the Lard.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
31-07-2015, 01:22 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(31-07-2015 01:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 03:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  And your understanding of mathematics is worse.

Your understanding of infinity is incorrect. An infinite extent means that one can go back any arbitrary finite amount, without bound. Your phrase "cannot go back to an infinite past amount of days" is mathematically meaningless.

Please allow me to restate. You propose an infinite line in one direction, the past only. Today is today, tomorrow is the future. Today is the last day of all history. An infinite line would go in both directions, past and future. One can go back without bound but on the return trip, one finds a terminus here in July 2015 CE.

It is therefore not an infinite line and therefore the past lines of time cannot be infinite as the timeline would need to expand to all possibility in BOTH directions to be truly infinite. There are a finite number of days that STOP now at today (where we are both located, I hope!). Do not mistake an abstract infinite series with a concrete one. Our timeline is half-infinite at present, at best!

Luckily for both of us "mathematicians" you haven't yet explained how the universe collapses and re-expands perpetually without losing power in the process--or where all this present matter and energy came from... I think God made it.

You still don't understand mathematics. "Half-infinite" is a meaningless term. Chas actually is a mathematician, you know -- with a degree and everything. I am not, but I have studied enough mathematics to know that you're out of your depth here. Best stick to "hermeneutics". Infinity can be a very subtle and tricky thing to deal with. I'm willing to bet Chas understands it better than you do.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Grasshopper's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: