Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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17-04-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 11:24 AM)H4ym4n Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 10:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  God died on the cross.

Who or what brought you god back to life?

Where did your God get its beginning Q?

When did it first become alive?

I'm sensing you are asking these rhetorically but I can try to answer you.

Jesus is God as is the rest of the trinity or the tri-unity if you will. Death is separation. The Father and Jesus were torn apart, separated. Jesus experienced the pain of separation and aloneness (don't under-dramatize this, it's as if I lost a child or wife to death and experienced that loss) and then was risen from the dead by God.

There is no "it first became alive" for God. The fourth dimension is real but your relationship to it is a human construct. You can recall your earliest memories when you began, but the universe was neither 15 Billion nor 1 second old when God pre-existed it. There was no light, no linear or relative time in this space. Beyond that concept, I can as easily inquire of you how the universe got here (see related thread) and you can argue "It was always here. No one or thing made the universe." So why would you disallow a Christian from saying, "God was always here. No one made God." ...? You couldn't have a level playing field that way. That would be a hypocritical double standard.

However, that is not a full response to you. My full response is my mother existed before I begin to make things out of blocks and play with mobiles. God was here before the first people, the first matter of the universe, and--this will help you, I think--before there was linear time in this space.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-04-2015, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2015 04:23 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 12:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus is God as is the rest of the trinity or the tri-unity if you will. Death is separation. The Father and Jesus were torn apart, separated. Jesus experienced the pain of separation and aloneness (don't under-dramatize this, it's as if I lost a child or wife to death and experienced that loss) and then was risen from the dead by God.

Bullshit. You made that up. No Christian theologian would agree with that. No one ever said "Jesus and the Father were *torn apart*. No person of the trinity could remain god, and have that happen, and the Gospel of John completely disagrees with you, (in which his divinity remains intact, even though taking on flesh ... as opposed to the other gospels where the divinity is completly different.You really should take a class in your cult some day). The second person of the trinity "eternally begotten", cannot "change" and still have your god remain eternal, and 3 persons. (It's all bullshit anyway, but at least it should be consistent bullshit.)
.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-04-2015, 02:48 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 12:51 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 11:39 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  No, sorry, that's not logical at all. My guilt or culpability or whatever is not diminished one bit by someone else's punishment (whether that be death or something less extreme). The whole scapegoat concept is wishful thinking at best. There is no reason at all why it should actually work.

Your guilt or culpability is in no way expiated by the death of Jesus. However, your punishment is. If I'm five years old and get caught stealing a candy bar from a grocery store and I have no money, my mother can give the store owner $1.00 but I still have to deal with other consequences including, perhaps, guilt.

Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. If you want to feel more guilty or more forgiven after you receive Jesus, that is your choice.

Sorry, it still doesn't make sense, and your analogy is a bad one. The mother giving the store owner the dollar has nothing to do with punishment -- she's just returning to him what he lost. God has lost nothing by my "sins" that is returned to him by the death of his "son" (i.e., himself). The whole concept is so goofy that it's not even coherent. You really believe that God sacrificing himself to himself has anything to do with any punishment that I deserve? If so, the loony bin has a spot reserved for you.

A better analogy would be: I kill someone, and everyone knows that I killed him. So the police arrest some other perfectly innocent person (who everyone knows is innocent) and execute him for my crime. And everybody is perfectly satisfied with that. Yeah, right. Can you even imagine any court system or society accepting that? It's insane, and so are you if you think it's "logical".
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17-04-2015, 03:50 PM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2015 03:59 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 12:51 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus paid the penalty for our sins.

Jesus died for the sins of all mankind. Through His sacrifice we are all going to Heaven whether we like it or not. To make salvation conditional on some mental state in my head not only diminishes the sacrifice of The Christ to the point of being worthless, it is the height of arrogance. A trait which seems common to all false "Christians".

#sigh
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17-04-2015, 04:03 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 03:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 12:51 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus paid the penalty for our sins.

Jesus died for the sins of all mankind. Through His sacrifice we are all going to Heaven whether we like it or not. To make salvation conditional on some mental state in my head not only diminishes the sacrifice of The Christ to the point of being worthless, it is the height of arrogance. A trait which seems common to all false "Christians".

Except that it never happened. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-04-2015, 04:08 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 04:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 03:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Jesus died for the sins of all mankind. Through His sacrifice we are all going to Heaven whether we like it or not. To make salvation conditional on some mental state in my head not only diminishes the sacrifice of The Christ to the point of being worthless, it is the height of arrogance. A trait which seems common to all false "Christians".

Except that it never happened. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

Go back in the house old man. This ain't your fight.

#sigh
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17-04-2015, 04:18 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 04:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 04:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  Except that it never happened. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

Go back in the house old man. This ain't your fight.

Nah, when there's bullshit it needs to be fought. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-04-2015, 04:25 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 04:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 04:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Go back in the house old man. This ain't your fight.

Nah, when there's bullshit it needs to be fought. Drinking Beverage




#sigh
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17-04-2015, 04:33 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 04:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 04:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  Nah, when there's bullshit it needs to be fought. Drinking Beverage




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Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-04-2015, 04:51 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(17-04-2015 04:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 04:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  


[Image: 30964.jpg]

I could set the building on fire.




#sigh
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