Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
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05-08-2015, 06:37 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
Jeebus forgave. Stupid loser was still crucified.
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05-08-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(04-08-2015 03:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 09:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm trying, Mark, to let you off the hook. Did you really wish to enter the boxing ring with me to take the negative from among three suggested debate resolutions--that there is no free will or there is no moral accountability or there is no absolute truth?

Because in doing so, I'd be obliged to point out that you were 1) exercising your free will in choosing to visit the boxing ring 2) holding me ethically/morally accountable for both you and I to teach the correct viewpoints on these items and 3) saying my debate resolution is false--which is of necessity based on the absolute truth that some things are true and some things are false.

Therefore I gracefully pointed out to you the original error--your allowing me to pick the topic for debate.

Of course, I don't mind repeating myself as above, at least until you acknowledge:

Absolute truth exists

Free will exists

People are morally accountable[/i]

This is just pathetic. You are an opinionated know-it-all, because you have just assumed you know your opponent's position. A debate is a two way dialogue, not a one way lecture.

I agree. Which of my three resolutions should we visit in the boxing ring? I will of course be assuming the affirmative stance.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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05-08-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(04-08-2015 10:52 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  I hope you recognize, Q, that the "you" in my responses was a rhetorical you and that what I was attacking were concepts and ideas, not you personally. I apologize if any of it came across that way.

More than your specific take on the points I made in those posts, when it comes to you personally I am interested in learning your hardness of conviction more than your particular perspective on any one point. The biggest problem I have with religion is that it continues to hold attraction for educated minds - and no mind is educated without being capable of reflection. Reflection necessarily involves evolution of opinion; that's the whole point of reflection; not to contemplate a plateau of certainty but to navigate continued ascent to new knowledge and new understanding.

So just how certain are you? Do you reject outright the possibility that some of your convictions, if not wrong, may be incomplete, the way knowledge of river dynamics falls short of hydrodynamics without knowledge of oceans?

I don't ask this question imaging myself on a plateau of solid understanding. In matters of aviation, for example, I've been flying for more than 40 years, and have a mechanic's certificate with Inspection Authorization in addition to my pilot's license. But I still study the aviation information traffic at all levels, even the most elementary, because not only do I not know way more than I know, there are many things I think I know that I still haven't got right (I don't tell my customers that Tongue).

When it come to interpersonal dynamics within the complex tapestry of human society I regard myself as essentially uneducated; the subject matter is too dense and complicated for me to ever feel comfortable that I really have a grasp of any of it. I know enough to get by, but bruised shoulders and feet stepped on are a daily fact of life that I don't ever see tapering off. So I am repelled by assertions by anyone that claims to not just know it fully, but know it without any room for further enlargement of understanding - who claim to know it beyond any possibility of ever changing their mind.

I'm not surprised when uneducated minds think that, but when an educated mind does, it tweaks me the way seeing a rock suddenly levitate would tweak me. And like a splinter you can't quite get tweezers on, it pokes at my curiosity to try to find out why.

So how certain are you? And that question is directed at the personal Q of obviously educated and reflective mind.

Thank you for your sincere questions and for graciously expressing yourself.

I'm very certain of my stance, my doctrine, my beliefs. I witness (currently) to over a dozen people weekly as individuals. For over 20 years, I've had every stripe of atheist, cultist, religious person and Christian take varying stances with me from pure "you're right!" to the most vehement disagreement. At this time, about once or twice weekly, I do some outside readings. For example, someone at TTA will ask about James 2 and how it says we need works, seemingly in disagreement with other NT teachings on faith alone for salvation.

Even though I've come up with my own stock answers for the problem and have discussed James 2 with literally dozens if not hundreds of "faith without works is dead" thumpers like JWs, Mormons, etc. I went back into James 2 again this week to see what I might have missed in commentary, literature, etc. online. I learned a lot, for example, I know Romans 4 well but had forgotten that James and Paul in Romans 4 both cite the same quotation regarding Abraham's faith being counted as righteousness/salvation. Again I saw how a better rendering is "See then that a man is CONSIDERED justified by works, and not by faith only."

Of course, I pray about a lot of things also. A common prayer is something like this, "Lord, I just spend 10 minutes discussing assurance with that brother. If I'm wrong about assurance, if we really do need to do something to maintain salvation, please do show me so I can be teaching the right things and so help myself and others, too."

I am sure but everything is an open book/open for debate. If I was closed, I wouldn't last but a few days at TTA. I see religious people come here, get smacked down, and leave. Then again, cults usually pray on believers who are not knowledgeable in the scriptures (and in life in general).

I don't know if I answered your questions. Is there something else knowledge base or psychology-wise you are seeking? I'm open.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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05-08-2015, 10:05 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(05-08-2015 08:45 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 03:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  This is just pathetic. You are an opinionated know-it-all, because you have just assumed you know your opponent's position. A debate is a two way dialogue, not a one way lecture.

I agree. Which of my three resolutions should we visit in the boxing ring? I will of course be assuming the affirmative stance.

I agree that there is free will, there is moral accountability, and there is absolute truth.

So there is not much point in us having a debate on these topics, or a discusssion , as we essentially agree.

Try another topic. You have a degree in biblical studies. You can look up any of thousands of my posts. Pick a topic we disagree about.
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06-08-2015, 12:28 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(05-08-2015 04:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 04:05 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I forgive you for telling me to eat a dick.

I don't forgive you for being one.

I forgive you for calling me a dick.
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06-08-2015, 01:55 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-08-2015 12:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 04:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I don't forgive you for being one.

I forgive you for calling me a dick.

Be a real man like your Jeebus...he never took no shit from no goddam atheists...

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Luke 19;27, KJV (Jeebus, coming out of a pub)
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06-08-2015, 06:05 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-08-2015 01:55 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Be a real man like your Jeebus...he never took no shit from no goddam atheists...

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Luke 19;27, KJV (Jeebus, coming out of a pub)

No, that was Jesus pretending to be someone else by speaking as a "hypothetical" person in a parable.

Parables are great. You can get your message across, and if someone questions you about the creepy implications, you can say "No, no. That part was the inconsequential part of the parable. I'm not like that.", and then go right back to telling the same parable when that guy is gone.
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06-08-2015, 06:16 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(05-08-2015 08:55 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm very certain of my stance, my doctrine, my beliefs. I witness (currently) to over a dozen people weekly as individuals. For over 20 years, I've had every stripe of atheist, cultist, religious person and Christian take varying stances with me from pure "you're right!" to the most vehement disagreement. At this time, about once or twice weekly, I do some outside readings. For example, someone at TTA will ask about James 2 and how it says we need works, seemingly in disagreement with other NT teachings on faith alone for salvation.

For thousands of years, every stripe of religionist was/is just as certain as you claim to be, and virtually all of these nut cases were proven to be wrong. You are not special, nor does your personal certainty assure you of anything, other than you will almost certainly be disappointed.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-08-2015, 08:32 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-08-2015 06:16 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 08:55 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm very certain of my stance, my doctrine, my beliefs. I witness (currently) to over a dozen people weekly as individuals. For over 20 years, I've had every stripe of atheist, cultist, religious person and Christian take varying stances with me from pure "you're right!" to the most vehement disagreement. At this time, about once or twice weekly, I do some outside readings. For example, someone at TTA will ask about James 2 and how it says we need works, seemingly in disagreement with other NT teachings on faith alone for salvation.

For thousands of years, every stripe of religionist was/is just as certain as you claim to be, and virtually all of these nut cases were proven to be wrong. You are not special, nor does your personal certainty assure you of anything, other than you will almost certainly be disappointed.

Actually, he won't even be disappointed. When he dies, he and his consciousness will simply cease to exist. He won't even know that he was wrong. He won't know anything, because there will be no "he" to know anything.
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06-08-2015, 09:40 AM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2015 09:44 AM by Leo.)
RE: Jesus Christ, A Pointless Sacrifice
(06-08-2015 08:32 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 06:16 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  For thousands of years, every stripe of religionist was/is just as certain as you claim to be, and virtually all of these nut cases were proven to be wrong. You are not special, nor does your personal certainty assure you of anything, other than you will almost certainly be disappointed.

Actually, he won't even be disappointed. When he dies, he and his consciousness will simply cease to exist. He won't even know that he was wrong. He won't know anything, because there will be no "he" to know anything.

Nah when Q dies, he will reincarnated as Q2 and he will not remember his previous life but he will have the impulse or inclination of trolling the thinking atheist site later in his next incarnation. Or maybe Q will be burning in the Islamic hell for not believing in the true God Allah. Or maybe he will be in the catholic hell for not believing in the true church of Jebus Christ the pedo Roman Catholic Church.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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