Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
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18-11-2016, 05:29 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 04:23 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 04:06 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Just don't buy their shit. There business will lose money or lose to a competetor and then they will think twice

It's not just about the business, though. What if you're a woman in a small town and the only drugstore in town won't sell you contraceptives or birth control because it's against their religion? You can't just go to the competitor because there isn't one.

This is a non-issue. Most people in small-towns don't have any drugstores based on my life experience, and everyone must go to the nearest city to go to a drugstore. Because of things like that virtually everyone has a car, or access to one. The cities have multiple options...even in a tiny city like the one I live in now (about 30k people) has 5 drug stores that I can think of off the top of my head...there are probably more. For this to be a real issue, think of everything that must take place in order for this to happen...

You have a girl in a small town how wants birth control. She goes to the only local drugstore by walking to it because she has no access to a vehicle (that's going to be a hell of a walk). The owner of the drugstore happens to be Catholic, and, as it happens, takes his religion seriously enough to forgo profit and not stock birth-control. Not only that, but contraceptives are also available for purchase online, so she would also need to no have internet access...and that applies to virtually no one as well.

This is really a non-issue.

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18-11-2016, 05:32 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 05:28 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 05:18 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I say -- if the morons don't want to do business with gays, Muslims, atheists, or whatever --- fine.......

Technology can help.....


An ap --- for your internet and smart phone --- that uses GPS technology --- to link you to a "Yelp" style database ---- that lets you see reviews of a business before even entering the store.......

Say you go to a bakery --- and your smartphone barks at you --- alerting you to 25 bad reviews of the business ---- You can read those reviews before you even enter the store ----- and if you find they've spurned the business of a group you favor ----- you can give them the finger, get back in your vehicle and take your money down the street to spend it in a more user friendly environment......

Of course -- if you get fucked with -- because you've got your atheist t-shirt on -- you can sit outside and write up a nasty review of the assholes.......


Achimedes said - "Give me a lever and a place to stand - and I will move the world".....


The fulcrum of a bigot - is usually somewhere between his ass and his wallet...............


..

This is basically a longer version of the same argument Zeke made. You don't always have the option of going elsewhere. Maybe you're in a small town. Maybe you don't have a car (I don't). Maybe "not giving them your business" deprives you as well as them. The "invisible hand" is a nice concept, but reality doesn't always play along.

True enough -- some people are going to have logistical problems....

But -- odds are -- enough other people WILL take their business elsewhere.....

Once you put a dent in an asshole's wallet -- they tend to make changes in policy.....

Frequently -- if a particular business is wankerish enough -- someone will start a competing business. I've seen it happen.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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18-11-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 05:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 04:23 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  It's not just about the business, though. What if you're a woman in a small town and the only drugstore in town won't sell you contraceptives or birth control because it's against their religion? You can't just go to the competitor because there isn't one.

This is a non-issue. Most people in small-towns don't have any drugstores based on my life experience, and everyone must go to the nearest city to go to a drugstore. Because of things like that virtually everyone has a car, or access to one. The cities have multiple options...even in a tiny city like the one I live in now (about 30k people) has 5 drug stores that I can think of off the top of my head...there are probably more. For this to be a real issue, think of everything that must take place in order for this to happen...

You have a girl in a small town how wants birth control. She goes to the only local drugstore by walking to it because she has no access to a vehicle (that's going to be a hell of a walk). The owner of the drugstore happens to be Catholic, and, as it happens, takes his religion seriously enough to forgo profit and not stock birth-control. Not only that, but contraceptives are also available for purchase online, so she would also need to no have internet access...and that applies to virtually no one as well.

This is really a non-issue.

It's enough of an issue that it has come up in court, and rulings have been made to prevent this sort of thing from happening. I guess that was all unnecessary? You may not care if Christians gain power and institute their own version of sharia law. I care very much. That's not a society I want to live in, and I think it's a real threat with the soon-to-be-current administration.

Christians are not persecuted in America, unless you define "persecution" as "we can't enforce our moral code on everyone else". When they start proposing legislation to stop this sort of "persecution", and Congress and the President both say "OK, seems reasonable", I find it worrisome.
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18-11-2016, 05:56 PM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 05:51 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 05:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  This is a non-issue. Most people in small-towns don't have any drugstores based on my life experience, and everyone must go to the nearest city to go to a drugstore. Because of things like that virtually everyone has a car, or access to one. The cities have multiple options...even in a tiny city like the one I live in now (about 30k people) has 5 drug stores that I can think of off the top of my head...there are probably more. For this to be a real issue, think of everything that must take place in order for this to happen...

You have a girl in a small town how wants birth control. She goes to the only local drugstore by walking to it because she has no access to a vehicle (that's going to be a hell of a walk). The owner of the drugstore happens to be Catholic, and, as it happens, takes his religion seriously enough to forgo profit and not stock birth-control. Not only that, but contraceptives are also available for purchase online, so she would also need to no have internet access...and that applies to virtually no one as well.

This is really a non-issue.

It's enough of an issue that it has come up in court, and rulings have been made to prevent this sort of thing from happening. I guess that was all unnecessary? You may not care if Christians gain power and institute their own version of sharia law. I care very much. That's not a society I want to live in, and I think it's a real threat with the soon-to-be-current administration.

Christians are not persecuted in America, unless you define "persecution" as "we can't enforce our moral code on everyone else". When they start proposing legislation to stop this sort of "persecution", and Congress and the President both say "OK, seems reasonable", I find it worrisome.

Regarding "Christian freedoms" ---

I had a friend who used to say --- "The Pilgrims came to this country for religious freedom ----- the freedom to burn witches"....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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19-11-2016, 12:06 AM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2016 03:59 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 05:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 04:23 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  It's not just about the business, though. What if you're a woman in a small town and the only drugstore in town won't sell you contraceptives or birth control because it's against their religion? You can't just go to the competitor because there isn't one.

This is a non-issue. Most people in small-towns don't have any drugstores based on my life experience, and everyone must go to the nearest city to go to a drugstore. Because of things like that virtually everyone has a car, or access to one. The cities have multiple options...even in a tiny city like the one I live in now (about 30k people) has 5 drug stores that I can think of off the top of my head...there are probably more. For this to be a real issue, think of everything that must take place in order for this to happen...

You have a girl in a small town how wants birth control. She goes to the only local drugstore by walking to it because she has no access to a vehicle (that's going to be a hell of a walk). The owner of the drugstore happens to be Catholic, and, as it happens, takes his religion seriously enough to forgo profit and not stock birth-control. Not only that, but contraceptives are also available for purchase online, so she would also need to no have internet access...and that applies to virtually no one as well.

This is really a non-issue.

Rights you lack the economic means to excise are kind of vacuous, are they not? Consider

Online purchases would require both an internet connection and access to a credit card or a bank account with a debit card, which is something the most impoverished often do not have access to. If your town doesn't have a pharmacy, it probably doesn't have a bank either. It is a large enough problem that the idea has been thrown around of having the Post Office offer simple banking services (savings and checking accounts, cashing checks, etc.), in order to provide those services to millions of American who cannot otherwise access a bank.

"Estimates from the 2015 survey indicate that 7.0 percent of households in the United States were unbanked in 2015. This proportion represents approximately 9.0 million households. An additional 19.9 percent of U.S. households (24.5 million) were underbanked, meaning that the household had a checking or savings account but also obtained financial products and services outside of the banking system."

https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/


It's similar to requiring a photo ID to vote. You have a right to vote, but not everyone can afford a state issued ID, or can make the time to get one, or can get away from work to get to the polls to vote. Making voting harder and more restrictive cuts into that right and undermines it. Those most in need of help are those least served by these economic restrictions.

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19-11-2016, 05:24 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 05:51 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 05:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  This is a non-issue. Most people in small-towns don't have any drugstores based on my life experience, and everyone must go to the nearest city to go to a drugstore. Because of things like that virtually everyone has a car, or access to one. The cities have multiple options...even in a tiny city like the one I live in now (about 30k people) has 5 drug stores that I can think of off the top of my head...there are probably more. For this to be a real issue, think of everything that must take place in order for this to happen...

You have a girl in a small town how wants birth control. She goes to the only local drugstore by walking to it because she has no access to a vehicle (that's going to be a hell of a walk). The owner of the drugstore happens to be Catholic, and, as it happens, takes his religion seriously enough to forgo profit and not stock birth-control. Not only that, but contraceptives are also available for purchase online, so she would also need to no have internet access...and that applies to virtually no one as well.

This is really a non-issue.

It's enough of an issue that it has come up in court, and rulings have been made to prevent this sort of thing from happening. I guess that was all unnecessary? You may not care if Christians gain power and institute their own version of sharia law. I care very much. That's not a society I want to live in, and I think it's a real threat with the soon-to-be-current administration.

Christians are not persecuted in America, unless you define "persecution" as "we can't enforce our moral code on everyone else". When they start proposing legislation to stop this sort of "persecution", and Congress and the President both say "OK, seems reasonable", I find it worrisome.

Busybodies are bringing stupid crap to court all the time. You can't turn on cable TV or satellite (Anyone still have those?) without seeing stupid court cases, so I would say that that is a poor measurement of determining how widespread this problem is. It's non-sense. And to say that I don't mind living under the equivalent of Christian Sharia Law is laughable. Supposing your premise is true, that somewhere some girls in some small towns have difficulty buying birth-control pills is equivalent as having religious police executing people for saying the wrong thing, reading the wrong thing, wearing the wrong thing, or thinking the wrong thing - if you think these types of things are even remotely comparable than you have the worst judgement of anyone I have ever meet. You have lost all objectivity, and frankly the comparison should be far more insulting to women, and all decent people really, than any issues they may have with me because I don't see this as a problem worth addressing by mandating federal laws.

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19-11-2016, 05:31 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(19-11-2016 12:06 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 05:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  This is a non-issue. Most people in small-towns don't have any drugstores based on my life experience, and everyone must go to the nearest city to go to a drugstore. Because of things like that virtually everyone has a car, or access to one. The cities have multiple options...even in a tiny city like the one I live in now (about 30k people) has 5 drug stores that I can think of off the top of my head...there are probably more. For this to be a real issue, think of everything that must take place in order for this to happen...

You have a girl in a small town how wants birth control. She goes to the only local drugstore by walking to it because she has no access to a vehicle (that's going to be a hell of a walk). The owner of the drugstore happens to be Catholic, and, as it happens, takes his religion seriously enough to forgo profit and not stock birth-control. Not only that, but contraceptives are also available for purchase online, so she would also need to no have internet access...and that applies to virtually no one as well.

This is really a non-issue.

Rights you lack the economic means to excise are kind of vacuous, are they not? Consider

Online purchases would require both an internet connection and access to a credit card or a bank account with a debit card, which is something the most impoverished often do not have access to. If your town doesn't have a pharmacy, it probably doesn't have a bank either. It is a large enough problem that the idea has been thrown around of having the Post Office offer simple banking services (savings and checking accounts, cashing checks, etc.), in order to provide those services to millions of American who cannot otherwise access a bank.

"Estimates from the 2015 survey indicate that 7.0 percent of households in the United States were unbanked in 2015. This proportion represents approximately 9.0 million households. An additional 19.9 percent of U.S. households (24.5 million) were underbanked, meaning that the household had a checking or savings account but also obtained financial products and services outside of the banking system."

https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/


It's similar to requiring a photo ID to vote. You have a right to vote, but not everyone can afford a state issued ID, or can make the time to get one, or can get away from work to get to the polls to vote. Making voting harder and more restrictive cuts into that right and undermines it. Those most in need of help are those least served by these economic restrictions.

Well, two things, I doubt many homeless people are getting prescriptions from their local doctor for birthcontrol anyway, and two, a lot of folks in the boonies do not use banks because they don't trust banks. It doesn't mean they don't have money. I had grandparents on each side who had tens of thousands stashed away when they died. They didn't have bank accounts.

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19-11-2016, 05:53 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(19-11-2016 05:31 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Well, two things, I doubt many homeless people are getting prescriptions from their local doctor for birthcontrol anyway, and two, a lot of folks in the boonies do not use banks because they don't trust banks. It doesn't mean they don't have money. I had grandparents on each side who had tens of thousands stashed away when they died. They didn't have bank accounts.


Really?

Trust is not the issue here. If you cannot, or won't (in the case of your grandparents), then you cannot make online purchases with cash alone.

It sounds like your grandparents would be fortunate enough to afford a car, and could make the trip if they needed. If only everyone was so fortunate....

A pharmacist has no more right to insert their religion into someone else's medical decisions than a waiter can insert their religion into the diet of their guests.

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19-11-2016, 06:09 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(19-11-2016 05:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(19-11-2016 05:31 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Well, two things, I doubt many homeless people are getting prescriptions from their local doctor for birthcontrol anyway, and two, a lot of folks in the boonies do not use banks because they don't trust banks. It doesn't mean they don't have money. I had grandparents on each side who had tens of thousands stashed away when they died. They didn't have bank accounts.


Really?

Trust is not the issue here. If you cannot, or won't (in the case of your grandparents), then you cannot make online purchases with cash alone.

It sounds like your grandparents would be fortunate enough to afford a car, and could make the trip if they needed. If only everyone was so fortunate....

A pharmacist has no more right to insert their religion into someone else's medical decisions than a waiter can insert their religion into the diet of their guests.

I included people like my grandparents to highlight that your stats probably lead you to believe that 7% if Americans cannot get to a pharmacy where they can get their prescriptions, and that is not even close to true. The fact that you recognize people like my grandparents were able to drive where they needed proves my point exactly.

Your last sentence shows exactly how we see this "problem". I'd consider it unethical and morally reprehensible to force someone to stock and sell things that was against their beliefs. Put yourself in their shoes for one second - You want the government to force people to disobey an all-knowing, all powerful, all perfect, creator of everything. You just don't see it that way because you don't believe what they do. If I believed that, I would disobey the government long before my god. When no one intervenes no one is forced to do anything against their will.

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19-11-2016, 08:47 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 05:29 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 04:23 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  It's not just about the business, though. What if you're a woman in a small town and the only drugstore in town won't sell you contraceptives or birth control because it's against their religion? You can't just go to the competitor because there isn't one.

This is a non-issue. Most people in small-towns don't have any drugstores based on my life experience, and everyone must go to the nearest city to go to a drugstore. Because of things like that virtually everyone has a car, or access to one. The cities have multiple options...even in a tiny city like the one I live in now (about 30k people) has 5 drug stores that I can think of off the top of my head...there are probably more. For this to be a real issue, think of everything that must take place in order for this to happen...

You have a girl in a small town how wants birth control. She goes to the only local drugstore by walking to it because she has no access to a vehicle (that's going to be a hell of a walk). The owner of the drugstore happens to be Catholic, and, as it happens, takes his religion seriously enough to forgo profit and not stock birth-control. Not only that, but contraceptives are also available for purchase online, so she would also need to no have internet access...and that applies to virtually no one as well.

This is really a non-issue.

No, it is an issue, actually. In addition to refusing to carry or fill birth control prescriptions, some pharmacists have also refused to return the prescriptions given to them by women seeking birth control. Without a prescription you can't go online to get birth control pills. In fact, as the right increasingly casts assholes who won't fill BC prescriptions as principled, persecuted heroes, these incidents are increasing in frequency.
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