Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
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18-11-2016, 02:05 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 01:54 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 01:42 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I'll dismissively roll my eyes at divisive, angry, hate-filled, and simplistic views of a dystopian America where the rule of law is ignored or destroyed all day long because it is non-sense. I don't believe the hype. If you feel that is condescending, I'm not that bothered.

You're so sure that it is nonsense yet cannot explain why. It is based on your own personal experience. Yet you're still young so your personal experience isn't actually extensive. In fact no one's is. This is why lessons drop out of living memory and history repeats. This is why we have economic cycles of 40 - 60 years. This is why history is a better teacher than personal experience. Oh it hasn't happened in the last ten years so it can't happen. "It's different this time" is used during every economic bubble just before a crash.

The people who are responsible for the hype aren't saying what's going to happen, they are saying what could happen based on what has already happened.

Is it really that difficult to understand for you?

You say that you will be out there protesting with the rest of us if rights are trampled on. I say that you won't because you will still be in denial. Each little step will be presented as being reasonable and you'll believe it. I am making this prediction based on what I have already seen from you.

First, my position isn't correct because I'm incapable of having the right opinion based on my age (because that prevents me from knowing something you do apparently), then you go on to explain you don't meet the qualifications based on age either?? Then for some reason I don't know history??? I don't know how you got to that assumption, but whatever. What are you even talking about?! "They", your group, aren't even saying it's going to happen, they are only saying it could. Okay, I'll be the first to admit it could happen. That doesn't mean we should act as if it were happening. It's the same reason I'm not a Scientologist.

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18-11-2016, 03:17 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
Well I am glad that you admit that it could happen but let's put that into context. It couldn't happen during Obama's administration. It couldn't even happen during Bush's. But what Dubya Bush did was create the conditions where it was possible that America could create the political landscape that it now has. And you can trace this long term trend all the way back to Reagan. The same in the UK with Thatcher, New Labour and UKIP / modern Tories.

So let's talk about rights being trampled on. This was posted on AF

The GOP’s Anti-LGBT, Anti-Women ‘Religious Freedom’ Law on Steroids

Quote: FADA’s basic principle is that it’s not discrimination when businesses discriminate against LGBT people if they have a religious reason for doing so.

Quote:But those stories are a red herring. The more important cases are ones like hospitals refusing to treat LGBT people (or their children), pharmacies refusing to fill birth control prescriptions, businesses refusing to offer health benefits to a same-sex partner, and state-funded adoption agencies refusing to place kids with gay families. Underneath the rhetorical BS, that’s what FADA is all about.

First, the bill applies to any corporation, organization, or person who “believes or acts in accordance with a religious belief or moral conviction that marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman, or that sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage.”

Notice how broad that is: any business, agency, or individual, including government employees, hospitals, or huge businesses like Hobby Lobby or Chick-Fil-A.

Now go back to that previous link about Muslim registration

Quote:The Muslim registration scheme, which would reportedly see Muslims given a form of identification that notes their religion,

Connect the dots and you have a system whereby people from Muslim countries, who don't even have to be Muslim themselves, can easily be discriminated against, have no comeback and no way to hide where they are from.

But who cares right, they're more likely to be Muslim? Well once you have such a system in place and it is seen as normal, it then becomes possible to be expanded to other religions and even to atheists. After all no one trusts atheists in America and just search this forum for examples of people being sacked for being an atheist.

I am not saying that it will happen but each step does make it increasingly likely. At what point are you going to start protesting? When it affects you personally?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Quote:First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
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18-11-2016, 04:28 AM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2016 04:33 AM by Dark Light.)
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
What! Huh You can't put my opinion in your context to come to conclusions in order to change what my opinion is.

When I say it can happen, I am speaking in technical terms. It's also possible we will be attacked by aliens from another galaxy, but the evidence doesn't suggest that's the course we are bound, or even likely to be on. I'm not saying they are equally likely, but that doesn't mean I've conceded by any stretch of the imagination.

And The Daily Beast? Really?

And as for discrimination, I disagree with you. I WANT a private business to be able to reject me because they don't like a group to which I belong. I want people to have the freedom of choosing who they do business with. Society doesn't fall apart when you give people freedom. Besides that, it is a red herring. Trump isn't going to change anything regarding discrimination laws.

As for Muslims coming from Syria, GOOD! We should be vetting them. If you're worried about discrimination, you should also be concerned with accepting large swaths of people who are diametrically opposed to the views values that Western Society has...you know, the same ones that are responsible for ensuring atheists aren't considered enemies of the state, and that women have equal standing, and the ones that allow us to have this conversation publicly without fear of execution, imprisonment, or being blown up in the name of Allah. I'm not saying that will happen, but using your very argument, we should stop all Muslims from coming to our country. I mean, come on, at what point are you going to start protesting Muslims? When they come for you?

Quote:First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

I know you've already dismissed my views as wrong because I'm younger than you, and therefore have inferior experience, and therefore my opinion is wrong, but the truth is, I've actually spent time in Muslim countries. I've lived in their culture. I've feared for my freedom and life for HAVING THE WRONG LITERATURE while going through security checkpoints. I've even been a legaly defined terrorist for being an atheist. I doubt you can say the same.

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18-11-2016, 05:01 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
So Darklight, do you agree that once a system is put in place focusing on one segment of society that it can be expanded to include other segments of society?

Do you agree that the powers of such systems can be increased over time?

Do you agree that governments use scapegoats to detract people's attention and to avoid getting the blame themselves?

Do you agree that the Republicans and GOP want to discriminate against non-Christians and have a vested interest in doing so?

Do you agree that we get more experienced as we get older?

Do you agree that history repeats itself as lessons are forgotten from living memory?

Do you agree that long term trends in society can extend across generations?

Do you agree that historically the worst atrocities of human society did not happen immediately but developed over time?

Do you agree that we should always stay vigilant?
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18-11-2016, 05:42 AM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2016 05:52 AM by Dark Light.)
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 05:01 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  So Darklight, do you agree that once a system is put in place focusing on one segment of society that it can be expanded to include other segments of society?

Yes.

Do you agree that the powers of such systems can be increased over time?

Yes.

Do you agree that governments use scapegoats to detract people's attention and to avoid getting the blame themselves?

Kind of. Much more complex question than it appears. Individuals in government tend to seek power and tend to be willing to blame other to retain power if it is warranted. Same for all positions of authority. It's why some many psychopaths, and narcissists are drawn to positions of power. Political leaders, police, military, professors, doctors, etc. Nothing we can really do about it except stay vigilant, and engineer genes. We haven't been able to do the second one very well yet.

Do you agree that the Republicans and GOP want to discriminate against non-Christians and have a vested interest in doing so?

Some Republicans do. I think most don't though. Some Democrats do. I think most don't though. I don't think it's in their interest to do so though, no. Ultimately I don't think this is relevant either, because I would sayTrump is not a Republican as Republicans have been defined for the past decades. It's why they took him on and fought him tooth and nail until they were defeated. It's also why so many Republicans hate Trump.

Do you agree that we get more experienced as we get older?

Some people do. Some people are content with their life as is, and are comfortable to lead lives where few things change. Nothing wrong with that. Some people seek new experiences out of curiosity. Some have a varied in interesting experience out of necessity. There is a reason why the President is not the oldest person we have kicking around. People much younger than myself have more experience than you do at specific things. Age alone is not a qualification.

Do you agree that history repeats itself as lessons are forgotten from living memory?

Yes and no. Some things repeat because of the way we are. For example, cities happen over and over again because humans are social animals, and we've evolved that way because we can do more collectively. It isn't because we've forgotten that the environmental impact of cities are a net loss and we are destroying out environment (not saying that's fact, just a hypothetical example). Kings led kingdoms to rule over power, not because we forgot that it doesn't always work out well for "us", it happens because we need their resources to survive, or because the King wants more power due to an compulsary evolutionary desire to dominate our environment, or a hundred other reasons. To simplify it to "We forgot Hitlers rise to power" is absurd. It's fresh on the cultural mind of every developed nation that exists. It's why you are thinking of it.

Do you agree that long term trends in society can extend across generations?

I'm not exactly sure of the meaning of this question, but it would seem that definitionally anything that can be defined as having "long-term trends" happen over the course of generations.

Do you agree that historically the worst atrocities of human society did not happen immediately but developed over time?

No, usually the really violent change is quick change. Out government is designed to be slow changing.

Do you agree that we should always stay vigilant?

Always.

Answers in red.

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18-11-2016, 08:26 AM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2016 09:06 AM by Grasshopper.)
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 04:28 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Trump isn't going to change anything regarding discrimination laws.

Really? There is already a bill being proposed that will do exactly that, and Trump has said he will sign it if it passes. And with a Republican majority in both houses of congress, there's a good chance it will pass.

There is another thread in this very forum discussing this (it's a few pages into the "Trump Supporter Advocates Internment Camps" thread, although the speciific bill has to do with discrimination against LGBTs).
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18-11-2016, 09:24 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 08:26 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 04:28 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Trump isn't going to change anything regarding discrimination laws.

Really? There is already a bill being proposed that will do exactly that, and Trump has said he will sign it if it passes. And with a Republican majority in both houses of congress, there's a good chance it will pass.

There is another thread in this very forum discussing this (it's a few pages into the "Trump Supporter Advocates Internment Camps" thread, although the speciific bill has to do with discrimination against LGBTs).

What bill exactly?

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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18-11-2016, 09:28 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 09:24 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 08:26 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Really? There is already a bill being proposed that will do exactly that, and Trump has said he will sign it if it passes. And with a Republican majority in both houses of congress, there's a good chance it will pass.

There is another thread in this very forum discussing this (it's a few pages into the "Trump Supporter Advocates Internment Camps" thread, although the speciific bill has to do with discrimination against LGBTs).

What bill exactly?

The following post brought it to my attention, and contains a link to it:

(17-11-2016 01:07 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(17-11-2016 01:01 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Maybe this kind of rhetoric will have the benefit of scaring some of the muslims out of America, or deterring more from coming here. Less religious nuts is just fine with me. I support any effort to improve the atheist/religious nut ratio.

Interesting....how does this fit into your grand ideals? Congress and the senate both controlled by republicans and your puppet president elect has vowed to sign it into law.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-cong...-bill/2802
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18-11-2016, 10:16 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 09:28 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 09:24 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  What bill exactly?

The following post brought it to my attention, and contains a link to it:

(17-11-2016 01:07 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Interesting....how does this fit into your grand ideals? Congress and the senate both controlled by republicans and your puppet president elect has vowed to sign it into law.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-cong...-bill/2802

Can anyone tell me Trump says he will sign this into law, even if it were to pass? I just saw a interview with him saying that that law has "has already been decided".

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/do...age-231310

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18-11-2016, 10:55 AM
RE: Jesus Christ, calm your tits.
(18-11-2016 10:16 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 09:28 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  The following post brought it to my attention, and contains a link to it:

Can anyone tell me Trump says he will sign this into law, even if it were to pass? I just saw a interview with him saying that that law has "has already been decided".

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/do...age-231310

Moms could maybe tell you more. I was basically repeating her statement: "[Trump] has vowed to sign it into law".
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