Jesus>Religion
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11-01-2012, 09:04 PM
RE: Jesus>Religion
Thanks Smile
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11-01-2012, 11:04 PM
RE: Jesus>Religion
(11-01-2012 07:34 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  I think he's talking about how there are a lot of religious hypocrites who do things for outward appearances like going to Church, praying, singing loudly during worship etc. But we should be more focused on following Jesus by helping the poor, being kind to others, etc.

One can follow Jesus' teachings without believing in his divinity.

One can do good works without even knowing about Jesus.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-01-2012, 12:57 AM
RE: Jesus>Religion
Reminds me of this song

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xds1d7_...esus_music

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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12-01-2012, 05:47 AM
RE: Jesus>Religion
(11-01-2012 11:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-01-2012 07:34 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  I think he's talking about how there are a lot of religious hypocrites who do things for outward appearances like going to Church, praying, singing loudly during worship etc. But we should be more focused on following Jesus by helping the poor, being kind to others, etc.

One can follow Jesus' teachings without believing in his divinity.

One can do good works without even knowing about Jesus.

Praise be to Seuss

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I wasn't . . . until I was
I am . . . until I'm not
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12-01-2012, 07:11 AM
RE: Jesus>Religion
(11-01-2012 11:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  One can follow Jesus' teachings without believing in his divinity.
Why bother? If you don't believe in his divinity, it seems stupid to just follow his teachings. "You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." (C.S. Lewis)

Quote:One can do good works without even knowing about Jesus.

Of course. But you'll probably do more if you believe in Jesus(or another God)

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world"

"Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist." C.S. Lewis
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12-01-2012, 07:16 AM
RE: Jesus>Religion
If any one in history deserves an undivine following of teachings its definatly not jesus
i can think of a few people off the top of my head.
Each in his respective fields ofcourse

Socraties
Confucius
Buddha
Napoleon
Al hassan ibn Al Haytham
Leonardo Da Vinci
newton
einstein
ancient egyptian scientists/priests

And none of them deserve an infallability pass since they were imprefect humans.

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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12-01-2012, 07:45 AM
RE: Jesus>Religion
(12-01-2012 07:11 AM)Sharks9 Wrote:  Of course. But you'll probably do more if you believe in Jesus(or another God)

More good works if I believe in Jesus?

O joy.

Or another God?

Can we rate the Gods in order of how much good works they influence us to do?

Jesus get's top prize I guess.
Then Allah.
Then Shiva.
Then all the dead gods like Apollo.

Lastly here come the poor little atheists valiantly struggling to do good works without any God to tell them what's right...

Come on Sharks, that's a load of BS.
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12-01-2012, 08:06 AM
RE: Jesus>Religion
(12-01-2012 07:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  More good works if I believe in Jesus?

O joy.

Or another God?

Can we rate the Gods in order of how much good works they influence us to do?

Jesus get's top prize I guess.
Then Allah.
Then Shiva.
Then all the dead gods like Apollo.

Lastly here come the poor little atheists valiantly struggling to do good works without any God to tell them what's right...

Come on Sharks, that's a load of BS.

Studies have shown religious people give more of their money and time and I'd say most good works involve you either giving your time or your money.

I'm not trying to say that atheists aren't charitable or are less charitable then every religious groups, just that on average the facts show that religious people will probably do more good works.

http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-C...829&sr=1-1
http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2011/...ar-people/
http://www.american.com/archive/2008/mar...-of-givers

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world"

"Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist." C.S. Lewis
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12-01-2012, 08:29 AM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2012 08:53 AM by morondog.)
RE: Jesus>Religion
So you're saying that as an act of charity I should believe in God so I'll do more good work 'cos I won't do it on my own?

That the fact that on average Christians do more good works means that on average God exists?

I have no interest in refuting your argument by reading reams of literature. So I'll give it to you, you can have it. Atheists are bad as proved by the unstoppable lotsalinks technique.

Actually: two can play that game:
Quote:Unfortunately, Brooks failed to consider these major differences between urban and rural areas. As a result, he concluded that conservative, religious people are more charitable than liberal, secular people. The differences he found can just as easily be explained by considering the facts that rural people have significantly lower taxes, lower living expenses and more time. It just happens that those same rural people are more politically conservative and more religious. In short, correlation does not equal causation.
Taken from:
http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-C...addOneStar

The first one star review for your first link. See what I did there? I quoted. Saved you having to read loadsa bullshit.

Quote:--his wording counts EVERY PENNY of taxed money that
liberals want spent on needy persons as "other
peoples' money" that liberals egregiously want to
spend rather than their own. When I asserted to him
that 30 percent or more of tax money is OUR money, he got embarrassed and
conceded the error of symantics.
--he counts every single penny given to churches as
"charity". I find this especially outrageous. As if all the money spent on church buildings, religious pamplets and books, religious instruction in schools, commercials for the church etc... are all "charity"! Also: charity is supposed to be voluntary is it not? I know lots of people who claim that a large measure of their free will was taken from them by the force of their church's religious indoctrination.

So other jokers than me have read this book and assert that it's BS.

So much for yr first link.

Can't be bothered to follow the others.
Quote:The United States is a religious country – and research tells us that observantly religious people generally give more to charity (both in time and money) than non-religious people.

Yr second link. I can be bothered. Baseless assertion with no reference. Only ref is to the Brooks study you pulled out on your first link, so at most yr second link is as valid as yr first, which ain't valid.
Quote:Q. We often hear that religious people give more to charity than secularists. Is this true?
A. In the year 2000, “religious” people (the 33 percent of the population who attend their houses of worship at least once per week) were 25 percentage points more likely to give charitably than “secularists” (the 27 percent who attend less than a few times per year, or have no religion). They were also 23 percentage points more likely to volunteer. When considering the average dollar amounts of money donated and time volunteered, the gap between the groups increases even further: religious people gave nearly four times more dollars per year, on average, than secularists ($2,210 versus $642). They also volunteered more than twice as often (12 times per year, versus 5.8 times).

Note how there's NO REFERENCE? Nice numbers but I can pull numbers out my ass too. Not sayin they came outta their ass, but where's the frikken ref to the study. If not there, then this link is just opinion dressed up to look academic. i.e. a pig in a wig.

But anyway, maybe it is true that religious people give more to charity. I don't expect it though... maybe if you can find a more convincing set of links?
LMAO all your links refer to Arthur Brooks's study. One stupid study? which seems to have had methodological flaws? Lemme see what I can pull up on google about this guy.
http://volokh.com/posts/1164012942.shtml

http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-art...government

See Smile I can spam links too, and I'm gonna annoy you by not quoting the relevant bits too Smile So if you want to refute me you'll have to read everything in minute detail Wink
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12-01-2012, 12:12 PM
RE: Jesus>Religion
(12-01-2012 08:29 AM)morondog Wrote:  So you're saying that as an act of charity I should believe in God so I'll do more good work 'cos I won't do it on my own?
No, you could do good works on your own, but on average people who don't believe in a God don't do as many good works.

Quote:That the fact that on average Christians do more good works means that on average God exists?
When did I say that?

Quote:I have no interest in refuting your argument by reading reams of literature. So I'll give it to you, you can have it. Atheists are bad as proved by the unstoppable lotsalinks technique.
Never said they're bad, they still give to charity and that's a good thing.

Quote:So other jokers than me have read this book and assert that it's BS.

So much for yr first link.

So if people disagree with something it makes it false? That makes sense.

Quote:Yr second link. I can be bothered. Baseless assertion with no reference. Only ref is to the Brooks study you pulled out on your first link, so at most yr second link is as valid as yr first, which ain't valid.

It says in the first paragraph it's based off the Fraser Institute report of charitable giving.

Quote:Note how there's NO REFERENCE? Nice numbers but I can pull numbers out my ass too. Not sayin they came outta their ass, but where's the frikken ref to the study. If not there, then this link is just opinion dressed up to look academic. i.e. a pig in a wig.

The reference is there if you actually LOOKED. Right at the bottom of the page it says "Chart 2- 2000 Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey, Roper Center for Public Opinion Research."

Quote:But anyway, maybe it is true that religious people give more to charity. I don't expect it though... maybe if you can find a more convincing set of links?

Or you could actually read the links.

Quote:LMAO all your links refer to Arthur Brooks's study. One stupid study? which seems to have had methodological flaws? Lemme see what I can pull up on google about this guy.
http://volokh.com/posts/1164012942.shtml

http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-art...government

See Smile I can spam links too, and I'm gonna annoy you by not quoting the relevant bits too Smile So if you want to refute me you'll have to read everything in minute detail Wink

In your first link the guy is basically angry that he doesn't talk about political moderates, who are apparently less generous than conservatives and liberals. "Generally, his otherwise strong analysis is weakened by focusing too little on what I have called the forgotten middle: moderates"

The second link is talking about his other book.

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world"

"Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist." C.S. Lewis
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