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Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
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02-09-2016, 07:42 PM
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
(02-09-2016 07:24 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  My curiosity is peaked :thumbs:

http://www.missedinhistory.com/blogs/mis...fixion.htm

Crucifixion in Antiquity pdf (Bucky Ball stuff)
http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/books/crux002.pdf

[Image: 27May14_Pict+3.jpg]

Yes, I saw that image too. One of the things I read somewhere (wish I could remember where) is that the upright, vertical post was very short and the crucified victim may have been very close to the ground so the wandering wild dogs could tear at him. The Romans were also not too keen on using a lot of wood for crucifictions. Wood was a valuable resource so it is thought that this might be another reason for a shorter upright post.

Your picture shows a short post. There may have been several ways of nailing people to a cross depending on the guards who were doing the hammering and if they had a lot of people lined up that day. You know, short order crucifictions.

I've never read about women being crucified. I wonder about that. Consider

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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02-09-2016, 08:13 PM
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
Quote:So you're thinking Mary sidled up to one of the guards with a bit of gold, maybe some incense, perhaps a little myrrh and bribed him to take her son off the cross so they could bury him in a nice tomb?


Absolutely not. "Jesus" is as phony as it gets. I'm thinking that it might have been possible for a jewish nobleman to have been crucified 30 years later. But it has nothing to do with any fucking "jesus."

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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02-09-2016, 10:13 PM
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
(02-09-2016 01:20 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I find it noteworthy that the earliest version we have of Mark shows the women leaving the empty tomb without telling anyone about it (which would include, presumably, where it is), after which the book ends.

So even if we assume parts of the story are true, and that there was such a tomb, it stands to reason that the other apostles didn't bother going there, and the women didn't tell anyone about the missing body, so none of the 2nd-generation Christians who started writing the Gospels would have had a clue where this place was. So, by the 3rd generation (or later), somebody figures they need to add a bit to Mark, to make it fit with the legend that was included in the next two Gospels written, Matthew and Luke.

On a more realistic note, I find it hilarious that (as was just pointed out) these later-generation Christians would try to make Pilate seem like a nice-enough guy to give in to religious sentiments of ONE Jew (Joseph of Arimathea) on the council and skip making an example of the crucified traitor who declared himself king.

"Well, sure, Joe... I realize that we're having trouble with this recently-conquered province, and that your religious fanatics want to declare their independence under a king who is not the Emperor's chosen subject, but for this one particular self-declared 'King of the Jews', why not make an exception and let him be buried in a noble manner, anyway, thereby publicly affirming my doubts about whether or not he was rightfully king after all? I was gonna let him rot without a decent burial, to discourage future such Messiah claimants, but I guess it couldn't hurt to make an exception right now. What's the worst that could happen if I did? Permission granted!"

It's so asinine that only True Believers™ could have put that idea forward.
Yep, I have also admired the Romans for showing Jesus the respect of covering his modesty with a loin cloth. Suuuure they did! I know there are a few depictions of a naked Jesus on the cross, but then you have the problem of how big to make his weiner.
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02-09-2016, 10:20 PM
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
So who built this tomb for him, exactly? What was the time frame for its construction?
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02-09-2016, 10:46 PM
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
(02-09-2016 01:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-08-2016 12:45 AM)Firefighter01 Wrote:  Why the tomb wasn't able to be 100% verified and also venerated as the most important shrine in the word is beyond comprehension for any "Son of God".

The victims of Roman crucifixion were left on their crosses to have the birds peck them apart. That was actually the most humiliating thing for a Jew .. not to be burried properly. Then days later, they were dumped in common graves. There is no "tomb of Jesus". When they cooked up the gospels, the inventors either didn't know that, or preferred to write a different fiction.

Christianity did not "develop quickly". The major influence was the Roman emperor, (not Jesus). At the END of the First Century, the Jewish High Priest required the synagogues to read the "Expulsion Curses", as the members of the "Way" (sub-sect of Jews who eventually would be called Christians), were causing trouble in the synagogues. They STILL thought of themselves as Jews.
Yeah, I have heard of that too, I was looking through Christian eyes on the "wondrous" tomb that they imagined.
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02-09-2016, 11:37 PM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2016 11:40 PM by dancefortwo.)
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
(02-09-2016 10:20 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  So who built this tomb for him, exactly? What was the time frame for its construction?

Well, supposedly it would have been a family tomb and already built with other dead people in it. Jews would let the dead rot in the tomb for a year or until all that was left was bones then they took the bones and put them in a stone box called an ossuary and carved the name of the dead on it. If Jesus had an already built family tomb to go to when he died there would have been a bunch of other boxes with bones all around the tomb. I've never seen this kind of realism depicted in Jesus movies but then I don't watch many Christian movies. (Actually I don't watch ANY Christian movies. They're so saccharine it makes me wanna barf.)

Oh!!!! Great excuse to post the barfing icon. Thumbsup

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Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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03-09-2016, 08:05 AM
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
There is as much evidence for jesus' tomb as there is for bozo's rocket ship.




Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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03-09-2016, 08:08 AM
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
(02-09-2016 10:13 PM)Firefighter01 Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 01:20 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I find it noteworthy that the earliest version we have of Mark shows the women leaving the empty tomb without telling anyone about it (which would include, presumably, where it is), after which the book ends.

So even if we assume parts of the story are true, and that there was such a tomb, it stands to reason that the other apostles didn't bother going there, and the women didn't tell anyone about the missing body, so none of the 2nd-generation Christians who started writing the Gospels would have had a clue where this place was. So, by the 3rd generation (or later), somebody figures they need to add a bit to Mark, to make it fit with the legend that was included in the next two Gospels written, Matthew and Luke.

On a more realistic note, I find it hilarious that (as was just pointed out) these later-generation Christians would try to make Pilate seem like a nice-enough guy to give in to religious sentiments of ONE Jew (Joseph of Arimathea) on the council and skip making an example of the crucified traitor who declared himself king.

"Well, sure, Joe... I realize that we're having trouble with this recently-conquered province, and that your religious fanatics want to declare their independence under a king who is not the Emperor's chosen subject, but for this one particular self-declared 'King of the Jews', why not make an exception and let him be buried in a noble manner, anyway, thereby publicly affirming my doubts about whether or not he was rightfully king after all? I was gonna let him rot without a decent burial, to discourage future such Messiah claimants, but I guess it couldn't hurt to make an exception right now. What's the worst that could happen if I did? Permission granted!"

It's so asinine that only True Believers™ could have put that idea forward.
Yep, I have also admired the Romans for showing Jesus the respect of covering his modesty with a loin cloth. Suuuure they did! I know there are a few depictions of a naked Jesus on the cross, but then you have the problem of how big to make his weiner.

Size of jesus' weiner is only part of the debate. The other part is whether or not jesus could maintain a hard-on during crucifixion. Laugh out load

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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03-09-2016, 09:20 AM
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
(02-09-2016 11:37 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 10:20 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  So who built this tomb for him, exactly? What was the time frame for its construction?

Well, supposedly it would have been a family tomb and already built with other dead people in it. Jews would let the dead rot in the tomb for a year or until all that was left was bones then they took the bones and put them in a stone box called an ossuary and carved the name of the dead on it. If Jesus had an already built family tomb to go to when he died there would have been a bunch of other boxes with bones all around the tomb. I've never seen this kind of realism depicted in Jesus movies but then I don't watch many Christian movies. (Actually I don't watch ANY Christian movies. They're so saccharine it makes me wanna barf.)

Oh!!!! Great excuse to post the barfing icon. :thumbsup:

:rainbowpuke:

There is no way a wandering preacher from Galilee had a "family tomb" in or near Jerusalem. That is so preposterous even the early Christians knew no one would buy that. So they cooked up the Joseph of Arimathea thing, (whose tomb he was said to have been put in).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-09-2016, 11:11 AM
RE: Jesus and His Forgotten Tomb
People's minds are made up in any number of different ways. Why some people believe that the Turin Shroud is genuine does not interest me in the least. They think they're right and I'd not hesitate to bet my kids' lives that they're wrong. The same applies to mythicism or atheism. I've made up my mind and I regret all the time I've wasted listening to arguments that I will always find absurd. People on the other side of the argument should do the same. We don't need to engage. I'm interested in religion because I'm curious to understand how different cosmological theories, most of them involving the miracles and the supernatural, came to be believed by vast numbers of people. Other theories such as those involving aliens are entirely uninteresting on this score. They could be interesting if I wanted to know what sort of scams were involved in peddling this nonsense to all the basement dwellers of North America, but I just happen not to care.

The futility of listening to or taking part in futile arguments was made startlingly clear to me in a YouTube debate between Robert M Price and some evangelist. Price was the model of dignified, restrained scholarship. The evangelist's debating style and the content of his arguments were so appalling that I realised I should be doing what the Born Again people and stay tuned to my own community. As Price said of his mythicist point of view, it doesn't really matter. It's interesting, but in a post-totalitarian world, it doesn't matter. Talk about religion or sex or politics, by all means, but remember that in many cases, it's a waste of time and only causes needless offence.
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