Jesus and where he comes from
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02-05-2010, 03:17 PM
Jesus and where he comes from
I would like some arguments as to why Jesus never existed, or atleast the one we know of as today. I saw an advertisement for the trailor on "The God Who Wasn't There" but with finals coming up I don't have time to see it. Can you all help me out?
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02-05-2010, 03:34 PM
RE: Jesus and where he comes from
Why he never existed? Because:

- There's no evidence for God in the first place, which is kind of necessary before you have Jesus
- There's no evidence that any of his miracles were physically possible, so the only solution is "MAGIC!", and there's no evidence that magic exists
- There's no evidence that he existed

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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02-05-2010, 09:49 PM
 
RE: Jesus and where he comes from
One thing they cannot get around is the lack of first hand accounts of Jesus life writen during his life time. Not one single government official, scribe, merchant, soldier, priest, historian, accountant... No one wrote a single word about a guy who moved masses of people from across the middle east, walked on water, cured leppers, raised the dead, healed the blind etc etc... Not a single word until the Gospels who were writen more than 20 years AFTER his supposed death.
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03-05-2010, 05:41 AM
 
RE: Jesus and where he comes from
What if?....

Let's start with this excerpt from Encyclopedia Britannica:

"Judaism, as the Jewish religion came to be known in the 1st century ad, was based on ancient Israelite religion, shorn of many of its Canaanite characteristics but with the addition of important features from Babylonia and Persia. The Jews differed from other people in the ancient world because they believed that there was only one God. Like other people, they worshiped their God with animal sacrifices offered at a temple; unlike others, they had only one temple, which was in Jerusalem. The sanctuary of the Jewish temple had two rooms, as did many of the other temples in the ancient world, but the second room of the Jewish temple was empty. There was no idol representing of the God of Israel. The Jews also believed that they had been specially chosen by the one God of the universe to serve him and obey his laws. Although set apart from other people, they believed God called on them to be a “light to the Gentiles” and lead them to accept the God of Israel as the only God."

What if the invention of Jesus was in an effort to bolster the belief in 'one god', as stated above?

What if the myth of Jesus was a devised story that really only took place in Mark's mind (he was the first to write about Jesus) and was copied and recopied by Matthew, Luke, and John?

What I am getting at is a) Jesus never existed (lack of evidence seems to point to that conclusion) and b) was only devised as an idea by Mark in an effort to 'build up' the belief in 'one god'? He would tell the story from the perspective of knowing a 'legend' that no one else around him would know (maybe a few elders would speak out against it, but overall it would be accepted).

It would be similar to a 'bigfoot' sighting, in that some people (the less rational of us) would believe it, while the rational type would dismiss it. However, as we have come to learn about the world, irrationality seems to win out, as it presents itself as hope, as wishful thinking...as faith.

My statement above is just a theory I have...to be taken with a grain of salt (until I'm proven right... Smile)
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03-05-2010, 06:53 AM
 
RE: Jesus and where he comes from
I have thought the same Sups.
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03-05-2010, 08:03 PM
RE: Jesus and where he comes from
Why do you all think the gospels said that his body, after he died, was never found after he was buried? Did they make it up to help prove their religion perhaps?
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03-05-2010, 08:14 PM
 
RE: Jesus and where he comes from
There could have been no body to begin with for one.

Aside from that there are plenty of other reasons far more probable assuming there actually was a jesus (not saying he was holy, he could have been a con artist).

1- He never actually died.
2- the Roman guards could have been bribed by his family into letting them take the body.
3-His followers could have taken the body to strengthen their claims.
4-He was buried somewhere else.

All more likely than believing he rose from the dead... zombie jesus just puts more asses in the seats.
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04-05-2010, 05:53 AM
RE: Jesus and where he comes from
(03-05-2010 08:03 PM)omega21 Wrote:  Why do you all think the gospels said that his body, after he died, was never found after he was buried? Did they make it up to help prove their religion perhaps?

Who says there was a body in the first place?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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04-05-2010, 07:20 AM
RE: Jesus and where he comes from
Yeah that is what I am thinking. Since there is a strong case that Jesus never existed there was never probably a body to begin with as Unbeliever and DrNeko pointed out. Also, I love it when Christians bring up the Shroud of Turin.
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24-04-2011, 09:32 AM
 
RE: Jesus and where he comes from
Should it matter if Jesus did exist though?

Proving that Jesus did not exist would be useful in debunking the basis of Christianity, but the existence of the person does not lend any credibility to him being the Son of "God" or that any miracles took place. That would be a giant leap of faith. But the lack of his existence cannot be proven.

Don't get me wrong, I am an atheist, but I draw practical conclusions that I am willing to bet my life and death on, on the balance of probabilities and logic. I feel that trying to argue something that cannot be proven (something or someone did not exist) is futile and on par with the theists arguing that God exists.

You could spend the rest of your life searching for evidence of existence, only to finally be on your death bed, having found nothing and still not be able to deny existence absolutely. Because the best you can hope for is to find something to prove existence, or find nothing to not be able to prove existence. But proof of non-existence cannot be achieved because we cannot be omni-present and omni-potent.

That's the irony. Although I am sure there is no God (due to logic, lack of evidence and balance of probabilities), as a mere mortal I cannot prove it!
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