Jesus doesn't change people
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09-06-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 02:17 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 01:50 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  God, Jebus, Vishnu, Allah or whatever else isn't needed at all for that kind of transformation. However the difference seems to be...you do all the work to become a better person and give an invisible friend all the credit?!

There are plenty to profess deep belief in an deity and fail miserably at self improvement. Wonder why that is?

The world is filled with men who desire to be good, but can never get beyond their own depravity. One long look at human history, and we see it littered by moral failings, with only handful of success stories. Belief in God doesn't particularly do the trick, nor does belief in his non-existence.

But when a man strives to be better, when he desires to be good, what is this form he's desiring to become? It seems more rooted than merely a thing of social expectations. Who is it that brings to life his failings, that embeds in him the desire to be good. What sustains one man, and cripples another, allows one man to be transformed, another to live endlessly in his failings.

You don't have to refer to anything here as God or Jesus of course, but one has to be grateful to that thing, or things, that pours light into the shadows.

Why can't you just be grateful to be alive, happy and free of whatever burden, and if "anything" requires thanks its yourself. You could be your own light that shines brightly onto those shadows.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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10-06-2015, 06:38 AM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 02:41 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I think believers are morons in that single regard, but I don't say that to them. Generally speaking, in my neck of the woods, if you admit to being atheist, you're met with ridicule or worse...pity. I don't need a retard who believes in a magic zombie pitying me, and its head scratching to know that this person thinks I'm the idiot. But like I said, this train of thought only applies to their religion.

But that's exactly how you feel about believers, that they're a bunch of morons, deluded idiots, etc...? Don't you think it's a bit odd that you don't like people looking at you this way, at the same time looking at others the same way?

Quote:And as a white male of heterosexual preferences, I'm only condemned when I admit to non-belief, but many close friends have not been so fortunate.

I always thought it was kind of funny, now that white heterosexual males have finally found a group to make them a minority, that they become so enraged by it. They can't stand the fact that some people look down upon them. I hate to break it to you, but I'm a brown gay, and had to deal with racism in one form or another, from heterosexual white males, from pretty much childhood. Friends got beat up for playing basketball in a white neighborhood. When we play volleyball, there's often some white kids driving by yelling out racial slurs. When I went to a theme park with my gay coworkers, another group of white kids drove by calling us faggots, recalling the same sort of experiences of my own childhood.

I live in world dominated in such a way by the white powers that be, that a brown guy such as myself must know his place, always toe the lines, never question the white power structures, and authorities.

So while this newly acquired minority status, is relatively new experience for you, it's been old hat for many us. Sorry if I'm not all that sympathetic. Unlike in your case you have to openly identify your views, and have the option of not disclosing it if you don't want to, I can't conceal the fact that I'm brown. Yea, you're an atheist, but hey your still a white heterosexual male, so it kind of evens out, lol.

But that's life, people are not particularly very good, they are usually petty, and can dislike you for even the most minor of offenses, and for things that are not particularly offenses at all. The world will always be filled by things to be enraged by, to fills one’s cup with contempt and resentment, and we tend to be quite eager to drink it.

Quote:I'm not sure how many more pieces I need to add together for you to get why I despise the bullshit you worship.

As a white heterosexual male, the biggest gripe you have personally, is that some religious people pity you, and look at you like an idiot?

You don’t like the way gay people are treated by the religious, the religious influence on politics. If you remove religious groups, aren’t there plenty of other groups that would fill the vacancy of your contempt? The rich, the conservatives, the racists, corporate america, lobbyist, politicians, cops, etc….?

I think the fiction here, is that you imagine that if religion was removed from the equation, that this would alleviate your resentments, that you would be less spiteful, perhaps allowing you to be consumed by empathy or some shit, but more likely apathy?

Do you like being enraged, do you like the idea of having something to despise? Or do you wish that you didn’t?
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10-06-2015, 06:59 AM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 02:56 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Why can't you just be grateful to be alive, happy and free of whatever burden, and if "anything" requires thanks its yourself. You could be your own light that shines brightly onto those shadows.

I don't think you can thank yourself for doing good, you're suppose to be good. It's sort of like a man thanking himself for taking his hands off his brother's neck. Or a father who abandons his children for a new lover. and thanking himself for returning several decades latter to amend the broken relationship he was the cause of.

It's more than that too. If you lived your life around scoundrels, you might assume that living as a scoundrel is the only way to live, a natural disposition. A group of scoundrels reinforcing their ways of life, encouraging it, and sustaining it. But what if a scoundrel encounters someone else, whose way of life is quite different than his own, one that is not a scoundrel, one that embodies what is often referred to as good, kindhearted, loving, selfless, humble, honest, etc.... His encounter with this other form of life, brings to light what he didn't recognize was lacking in his, and a desire to a be part of this life, and abandons his.

Clearly in this case, the man can't thank himself, he must thank the one who showed him what he didn't see, that gave rise to that desire that laid dormant. He must be thankful to the one who showed him that a scoundrel's life is not all that there is.
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10-06-2015, 07:01 AM
Jesus doesn't change people
Here you go again, not seeking to understand but to disagree and support your own version of reality based on your fiction.

These types of responses make it clear you're not here for discussion but for pushing your singular agenda.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-06-2015, 08:26 AM (This post was last modified: 10-06-2015 09:58 AM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(10-06-2015 06:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 02:56 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Why can't you just be grateful to be alive, happy and free of whatever burden, and if "anything" requires thanks its yourself. You could be your own light that shines brightly onto those shadows.

Clearly in this case, the man can't thank himself, he must thank the one who showed him what he didn't see, that gave rise to that desire that laid dormant. He must be thankful to the one who showed him that a scoundrel's life is not all that there is.

But he did all that himself. And if he failed it would be on his shoulders -- unless your implying that because a deity can do that thing and deserves credit and thanks, the deity must be to blame when it fails too?

Why can't he thank himself? I've got a good friend, who was for decades an alcoholic, a very mean, nasty drunk too. Eventually he decided to quit drinking. He did the AA but said always insisted he was his own higher power. Yeah he did quit drinking. He was more successful than others in their meeting. He showed himself that he was a miserable bastard when he drank, got tired of having to apologize to someone for his actions of the previous night. When he got sober he thanked himself. Because he did it.

If I do all the work on something why should I give something else the credit for it?

[Image: 8a78ec84cebe7c0830b0a3ced7e7b73a.jpg]


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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10-06-2015, 09:05 AM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(10-06-2015 06:38 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 02:41 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I think believers are morons in that single regard, but I don't say that to them. Generally speaking, in my neck of the woods, if you admit to being atheist, you're met with ridicule or worse...pity. I don't need a retard who believes in a magic zombie pitying me, and its head scratching to know that this person thinks I'm the idiot. But like I said, this train of thought only applies to their religion.

But that's exactly how you feel about believers, that they're a bunch of morons, deluded idiots, etc...? Don't you think it's a bit odd that you don't like people looking at you this way, at the same time looking at others the same way?

Quote:And as a white male of heterosexual preferences, I'm only condemned when I admit to non-belief, but many close friends have not been so fortunate.

I always thought it was kind of funny, now that white heterosexual males have finally found a group to make them a minority, that they become so enraged by it. They can't stand the fact that some people look down upon them. I hate to break it to you, but I'm a brown gay, and had to deal with racism in one form or another, from heterosexual white males, from pretty much childhood. Friends got beat up for playing basketball in a white neighborhood. When we play volleyball, there's often some white kids driving by yelling out racial slurs. When I went to a theme park with my gay coworkers, another group of white kids drove by calling us faggots, recalling the same sort of experiences of my own childhood.

I live in world dominated in such a way by the white powers that be, that a brown guy such as myself must know his place, always toe the lines, never question the white power structures, and authorities.

So while this newly acquired minority status, is relatively new experience for you, it's been old hat for many us. Sorry if I'm not all that sympathetic. Unlike in your case you have to openly identify your views, and have the option of not disclosing it if you don't want to, I can't conceal the fact that I'm brown. Yea, you're an atheist, but hey your still a white heterosexual male, so it kind of evens out, lol.

But that's life, people are not particularly very good, they are usually petty, and can dislike you for even the most minor of offenses, and for things that are not particularly offenses at all. The world will always be filled by things to be enraged by, to fills one’s cup with contempt and resentment, and we tend to be quite eager to drink it.

Quote:I'm not sure how many more pieces I need to add together for you to get why I despise the bullshit you worship.

As a white heterosexual male, the biggest gripe you have personally, is that some religious people pity you, and look at you like an idiot?

You don’t like the way gay people are treated by the religious, the religious influence on politics. If you remove religious groups, aren’t there plenty of other groups that would fill the vacancy of your contempt? The rich, the conservatives, the racists, corporate america, lobbyist, politicians, cops, etc….?

I think the fiction here, is that you imagine that if religion was removed from the equation, that this would alleviate your resentments, that you would be less spiteful, perhaps allowing you to be consumed by empathy or some shit, but more likely apathy?

Do you like being enraged, do you like the idea of having something to despise? Or do you wish that you didn’t?

Racism is pretty ugly but it is based in reality. People hate eachother for their differences and its quite ridiculous. But it is real.

Religion is control based on imaginary friends. And, whether you agree with it or not, this is an area of my life that im passionate of. My world is reality based and for the the existence of supernatural beings there is no evidence to rationally insert their presence in our world, much less allow them to be the guiding force that controls how we govern our lives.

It's insanity.
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