Jesus doesn't change people
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08-06-2015, 05:35 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(08-06-2015 05:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 05:08 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why would I resent those who settled for fantasies over reality? Why would I have to imagine myself as the adult, and them as children? Or see myself as existing on some higher perch? If this the only life we have, than why not just eat and drink, because tomorrow we die? Why constantly try to imagine ourselves serving higher purposes and causes, even godless ones.

Stop projecting your depressive nihilism onto others and get some help.
You need it.

While it may be nihilistic, I don't particularly find anything about it being depressive.

But it does seem for many, that a life in which we just live, and occupy ourselves with our immediate chores and bills, spending time with our friends and family, working our 9 to 5s, free of belonging to any narrative, or movement, is not enough, even for atheists. That life has to be more than just eating and drinking. That it's not just about making it through from one day to the next, but in finding something to live for.
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08-06-2015, 05:37 PM
Jesus doesn't change people
(08-06-2015 05:29 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 05:16 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It isn't true, that's what elicits my contempt.

So lies elicit your contempt? Who cares? Life is too short to occupy one's life with contempt.

Quote:You're on a forum for atheists, you seem to clearly think more highly of yourself and your religious opinion than of ours for you to be here as a sheeple among the wolves.

I don't consider you wolves. And I don't particularly have anything against atheism. I don't feel contempt for disbelief. If I don't particularly like you, it likely has nothing do with any of your beliefs, false or true.

Quote:Which begs the question again: Why are you here, tomasia?

Well, I'm not here to serve some higher purpose, that's for sure, lol. I'm primarily here because I like to be here. I like the sort of intersection between belief and disbelief, I like the exchanges, the aggression, those convictions, and the personalities that come with it.

I live for the moments that make me feel alive. And sometimes that means feeling contempt for poor ignorant fools.

"Well, I'm not here to serve some higher purpose, that's for sure, lol. I'm primarily here because I like to be here. I like the sort of intersection between belief and disbelief, I like the exchanges, the aggression, those convictions, and the personalities that come with it."

Be honest for just once on the forum. Why did you (a theist who doesn't accept anything atheists tell you about their own opinions on any and every subject you are involved in) come to this forum of atheists?

I want you to actually, honestly, think about your motivations. The search for your honest reasons just might help you better understand your own motives. And hence, why people don't take you or your attempts at argument and rebuttal seriously.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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08-06-2015, 05:45 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(08-06-2015 05:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 05:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Stop projecting your depressive nihilism onto others and get some help.
You need it.

While it may be nihilistic, I don't particularly find anything about it being depressive.

But it does seem for many, that a life in which we just live, and occupy ourselves with our immediate chores and bills, spending time with our friends and family, working our 9 to 5s, free of belonging to any narrative, or movement, is not enough, even for atheists. That life has to be more than just eating and drinking. That it's not just about making it through from one day to the next, but in finding something to live for.

But you don't know any of us really. You are projecting your depressive nihilism. Many atheists are involved in things and projects larger then themselves and find them very meaningful. Big science projects, teaching, healthcare, other goals, etc etc. Just cuz you have nothing to live for other than *Make-Me-Comfy-Jebus*, doesn't mean every one lives by your depressive values.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-06-2015, 05:54 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(08-06-2015 05:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 05:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Stop projecting your depressive nihilism onto others and get some help.
You need it.

While it may be nihilistic, I don't particularly find anything about it being depressive.

But it does seem for many, that a life in which we just live, and occupy ourselves with our immediate chores and bills, spending time with our friends and family, working our 9 to 5s, free of belonging to any narrative, or movement, is not enough, even for atheists. That life has to be more than just eating and drinking. That it's not just about making it through from one day to the next, but in finding something to live for.

If we didn't have something to live for don't you suppose we would either all be rolled up in the fetal position or dead?

Pretty arrogant to think that atheists haven't anything to live for...that we have no future...no plans.

As a believer you are spending your time trying to get the golden ticket to live forever in some other place granted to you by your god. That is, if you understood his rules correctly.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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08-06-2015, 07:47 PM
Jesus doesn't change people
(08-06-2015 05:54 PM)Anjele Wrote:  If we didn't have something to live for don't you suppose we would either all be rolled up in the fetal position or dead?

Other animals don't seem particularly dependent on finding something to live for, they just live. They're not rolling over into the fetal position either.

Quote:Pretty arrogant to think that atheists haven't anything to live for...that we have no future...no plans.

That would be a pretty arrogant thing to say, good thing I didn't say it. The interesting part is not that atheists seek to find something to live for, but that we all find ourselves in a life particularly seeking this for ourselves. That we're not just merely driven to survive, but to live and find something meaningful about it.

Quote:As a believer you are spending your time trying to get the golden ticket to live forever in some other place granted to you by your god. That is, if you understood his rules correctly.

As a believer I'm not particularly differing some sense of fulfillment or meaning here, in hopes of acquiring these things after I die. The things that I find meaningful or fulfilling are just as present in the here and now.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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08-06-2015, 07:49 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
It helps people but not in any way that they couldn't help themselves if they credited themselves with having those qualities inside them that they credit Jesus.

Real or not, Jesus is not the sinless, perfect son of God. He's merely an idol. I could starting lifting weights like crazy and run around doing heroic acts and claim Hercules as my inspiration. I'll never be as strong or as heroic, but the guy I'm striving to be like didn't exist.
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08-06-2015, 07:55 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(08-06-2015 10:29 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-06-2015 10:18 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I think there's more to Jesus helping them than putting some magical powder in their soup. Because the sort of Goodness, the sort of life, that the believer here is striving to emulate and be a part of, is that which Jesus to them embodies, the model, the ideal, the representation of the Good. Zacchaeus sees Jesus as a man who has a fellowship with his community that he wants to be a part of, in which Christ extends to him as well. He repents and commits to amending his wrongs. Can he say this was the result of his inner strength? Of course not, because he was a man who succumbed to his weakness, but it was by the grace offered to him, that he's able to partake and become whole.

He cannot thank himself, anymore so than a man who puts a noose around his brother's neck, can thank himself for removing it.

Jebus has nothing to do with it. For millenia, humans have embodied their ideas in religious concpets. There is no evidence for "grace". People who grow up in a culture are aware they might not be lliving (up) to their OWN learned ideals which they got from their culture. Some people change. Some people have no other way of thinking or talking about behavioal changes except in religious terms. You seem to be among those.


Exactly. People become Buddhists and turn their lives around, and Buddhism need not involve any belief in god. It's all placebo effect, similar to homeopathy. It works better on some people than it does on others.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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08-06-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
Tomasia, fuck off. Seriously.

Atheist come here to share a common disbelief. It's a social gathering of sorts that beliebers can get with the majority of the population around them 24/7.

Your gross generalizations about what you think we think, feel or believe, has grown stale. It wasn't new when you brought it here to begin with.

People can be happy and find purpose in life without an imaginary care taker. We shouldn't have to apologize cause that scares you. I'm growing weary of pointing out your cowardice.
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08-06-2015, 08:18 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(08-06-2015 07:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  As a believer I'm not particularly differing some sense of fulfillment or meaning here, in hopes of acquiring these things after I die. The things that I find meaningful or fulfilling are just as present in the here and now.

When you die you are dead...done...finished. There isn't a god who has a harp and wings waiting for you, nor are your dead relatives planning a big reception for your arrival.

You are the one living a false life. You are living a life based on a fairy tale ending.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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09-06-2015, 06:33 AM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(08-06-2015 05:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Be honest for just once on the forum. Why did you (a theist who doesn't accept anything atheists tell you about their own opinions on any and every subject you are involved in) come to this forum of atheists?

I want you to actually, honestly, think about your motivations. The search for your honest reasons just might help you better understand your own motives. And hence, why people don't take you or your attempts at argument and rebuttal seriously.

I think the problem with your question is that it presupposes that I was motivated by rational considerations, that my participation was deliberate. And I don't believe this is the case at all. I've been a part of some forum or group like this for the past ten years or so. I like the topic, belief vs disbelief, religion. There's probably very few things that I enjoy talking about, arguing over, or discussing more so than religion. In fact much of what I read is often about these topics. I'm currently working my way through Breaking the Spell, and Faith vs. Fact. I imagine it's probably like folks who like sports, or bikes, or Miatas, joining a forum.

I also like the idea of questioning people beliefs, and views, to see how mind's outside of my own are like. But I'm more interested in the person behind the veil and arguments, though over the internet that's quite a difficult thing to gleam. And more often than not, I'd typically deconstruct a person's argument, to make them a part of an internal dialogue that I'm always having. I'm often accused of not listening, or understanding, but I don't think this is the case. And I think people accuses me not understanding, because I disagree with them, or misconstrued my questions. But I think I keep a good summary of the points raised, a recollection of every counter points, and argument.

I think if you were to ask me to summarize the view of my opponents, the ones that have at this point been expressed to me quite extensively, that I'd do a good job. If you were to quiz me on your views, I'd probably do a good job as well. I remember in another forum, where theists and atheists switched rolls, arguing each others position, I was commended on my ability to do atheism justice, rather than dish out a series of strawmen.

I'm always listening. Reading over certain things from time to time, paying attention to every minute detail, even the day to day struggles, and frustration, the stories of losses, and troubling experiences. I try and take it all in as much as I can, forming a picture of the lives behind these screens, that's constantly changing and evolving. And I live for those moments in which people surprise you, and shatter whatever image you had of them previously.

And I think in seeing others, one is able to better see himself too.

I also like the question you raise about what motivates us: The disparity between the answers we give, and the true and honest reasons. What drives a man's contempt for those who believe in fairy tales, and deceptions? What draws one to science, as a replacement for failed religions? Why is the truth so appealing? Why do humans seek meaning? Why do they see distinctions between good and bad? Why is a life that's all but sound and fury, signifying nothing, constantly being given significance? etc....

I'm here our of my own curiosities, because I enjoy the discussion, and I like the people, at least most of them, though I don't think they feel the same about me, lol.
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