Jesus doesn't change people
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09-06-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 09:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 08:09 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I'm surrounded by indoctrinated Christians who don't question their belief. I don't expect them to not believe. They are another sheep in the flock. They don't read their bibles, question the supernatural aspects, or examine the science that inadvertently debunked mythical explanations. They don't surround themselves with people bombarding belief with logic and reason.

I think it's very true, that theists for the most part are not surrounded or bombarded by their opposition. Though it does exists more so for them now, than it did perhaps 30 years ago. If you want to know what those alternative positions are, what the objections to theism, and religion are, a person would have to actively go out and look for it.

You make fervently believe the oppositions case is so complete, so persuasive, so compelling, and strong, that a person would have to jump through all sorts of hoops, and sloppy thinkings to reject it. But I don't, I find it all wanting, and hardly ever about the thing they are talking about. Watching a theists and atheists argue, is like watching two people arguing about two different things. Or two foreigners trying to argue using their own respective languages, unable to recognize their own misunderstandings.

Quote:They have an excuse. You don't. So in my opinion you're either ignoring the logic and reason that surrounds you here, which would mean you're here to preach at us. Or you're just that coward that I keep talking about, and you know your faith is bullshit but you're afraid to let go.

Don't be scared.

That's your opinion, but I don't think it's a very good one. I'm not sure why it breaks down to these one or two simplistic options. What about options in which you're wrong and I'm right? Well that couldn't possibly be true right? You seem to a lack a great deal of imagination, if it all just breaks down to either I'm coward, or here to preach. If I was afraid of the dark, afraid of letting go, I'm not sure why I'd be surrounding myself with the dark? Wouldn't that perhaps negate an explanation of cowardliness at least?

What's obviously wrong with religion is obvious, so I just don't see your comparison of two people speaking different languages.

Do you believe in all the supernatural aspects in the Bible? That shit is pretty black and white, and if you say yes than why do we no longer see these supernatural things today? Only in religion are these illogical beliefs accepted. Religion leaves only faith as a fail safe and any logical person has to admit that their belief is founded only on faith alone. You believe simply because you want too. If it were as easy to believe as you do, you could provide us with at least one spec of compelling evidence or reason. But you don't, but don't feel bad because nobody ever has.
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09-06-2015, 10:48 AM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 08:51 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  To present your opinions as true so as to convince atheists a god exists.

This would requires that I believe I hold opinions which I believe if properly understood would convince atheists that God exists. I don’t believe this. That it just breaksdown to clearing up our misunderstandings, and the problem is solved. No, I don’t believe this at all.

Quote:For instance on the ". I’m pretty confident that if you were gauge my understandings of the arguments and claims made by other atheists, that you’d discover that I understood them quite well." , in all the conversations on morality or evolution, you never seemed to understand or accept what you were being told

Understanding and accepting are not the same thing. You probably understand a variety of different arguments and claims, while not accepting them. I think whatever methodology you use to gauge my understanding is flawed. All you ever see is my disagreements. And I’m not even sure if you understood what those disagreement were. But you shouldn’t mistaken these disagreements, as indicator that I’m refusing to understand your position.

Quote:I believe you believe you are, but you're far too close-minded.

As a theist, I think I am as open minded as it comes. I accept the theory of evolution for the most part, and I acknowledge the bible is a human text, plagued with all the problems of human writers, etc… I try and consider as many different perspective as I can, within theism, and outside of theism as well. I can easily isolate myself from opposing positions, but I don’t. I’m not sure what more is required of me, to be anymore open minded.

Quote:For instance, you operate under the assumption that atheists want to hear your opinion. Why do you think atheists on an atheist forum would want to hear a theist's opinion?

I operate under the assumption that I want to hear your opinion, or the opinions of others here. I don’t operate under the assumption that anyone here actually cares about a single thing that I have to say. If they do they do, if they respond they do, if the engage me, they engage me. My relationship to other atheists here is entirely ambivalent, some people perhaps like me, others don’t care for me, and some perhaps actively despise my existence here. But hey it is, what it is, and I’m fine with that.
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09-06-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 10:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 08:51 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  To present your opinions as true so as to convince atheists a god exists.

This would requires that I believe I hold opinions which I believe if properly understood would convince atheists that God exists. I don’t believe this. That it just breaksdown to clearing up our misunderstandings, and the problem is solved. No, I don’t believe this at all.

Quote:For instance on the ". I’m pretty confident that if you were gauge my understandings of the arguments and claims made by other atheists, that you’d discover that I understood them quite well." , in all the conversations on morality or evolution, you never seemed to understand or accept what you were being told

Understanding and accepting are not the same thing. You probably understand a variety of different arguments and claims, while not accepting them. I think whatever methodology you use to gauge my understanding is flawed. All you ever see is my disagreements. And I’m not even sure if you understood what those disagreement were. But you shouldn’t mistaken these disagreements, as indicator that I’m refusing to understand your position.

Quote:I believe you believe you are, but you're far too close-minded.

As a theist, I think I am as open minded as it comes. I accept the theory of evolution for the most part, and I acknowledge the bible is a human text, plagued with all the problems of human writers, etc… I try and consider as many different perspective as I can, within theism, and outside of theism as well. I can easily isolate myself from opposing positions, but I don’t. I’m not sure what more is required of me, to be anymore open minded.

Quote:For instance, you operate under the assumption that atheists want to hear your opinion. Why do you think atheists on an atheist forum would want to hear a theist's opinion?

I operate under the assumption that I want to hear your opinion, or the opinions of others here. I don’t operate under the assumption that anyone here actually cares about a single thing that I have to say. If they do they do, if they respond they do, if the engage me, they engage me. My relationship to other atheists here is entirely ambivalent, some people perhaps like me, others don’t care for me, and some perhaps actively despise my existence here. But hey it is, what it is, and I’m fine with that.

"I operate under the assumption that I want to hear your opinion, or the opinions of others here."

You say this, but you don't mean it. You don't come to listen, you come to espouse your views. Which makes this "This would requires that I believe I hold opinions which I believe if properly understood would convince atheists that God exists. I don’t believe this. That it just breaksdown to clearing up our misunderstandings, and the problem is solved. No, I don’t believe this at all. " completely untrue.

"I don’t operate under the assumption that anyone here actually cares about a single thing that I have to say. If they do they do, if they respond they do, if the engage me, they engage me. "

You don't seem to actually understand why people do or don't engage with you. You present flawed theistic arguments on an atheist forum, of course some people are going to engage with them. But, once again, you aren't here to actually discuss those points, only present yours as true while ignoring the responses given to you (and by ignore, I mean that you dismiss them as not seeming to you as though they are correct).

Once again, conversation is a 2-way street. That doesn't mean that responding to posts is the same as a conversation. You once compared my replies to a politicians, so I'll lay this out very plainly for you. You respond to questions, but don't answer the questions you are commonly asked. Then you dodge any and all responses that contradict your opinion and espouse the same views over and over and over. Sounds like a politician's reply to me. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-06-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
First of all. We have to understand what sin actually is?? The definition and standard of sin differ from individual to individual. Religion is not the momentum of emotion Rather its aim is to attain permanent rest and absoluteness. Anything that disturbs your peace of soul is sin for me. Every religion has spoken his language to convey the same. Approach is different but destination is same. Try to be in depth while dealing religion. Now a days Religious Leader are full of words and no enlightment .Thus sometimes they appear to be in more ambiguity then ordinary peoples. They are following words not the god so they are misleaded.
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09-06-2015, 12:07 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 12:05 PM)Satyam Wrote:  First of all. We have to understand what sin actually is?? The definition and standard of sin differ from individual to individual. Religion is not the momentum of emotion Rather its aim is to attain permanent rest and absoluteness. Anything that disturbs your peace of soul is sin for me. Every religion has spoken his language to convey the same. Approach is different but destination is same. Try to be in depth while dealing religion. Now a days Religious Leader are full of words and no enlightment .Thus sometimes they appear to be in more ambiguity then ordinary peoples. They are following words not the god so they are misleaded.

Words are all they have to follow because god isn't real Drinking Beverage

Or they are following their imagination as it pertains to their interpretation of those words. God is their imaginary friend Bowing

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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09-06-2015, 12:10 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 12:07 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Words are all they have to follow because god isn't real Drinking Beverage

and now for a brief intermission...




Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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09-06-2015, 12:14 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 12:05 PM)Satyam Wrote:  First of all. We have to understand what sin actually is?? The definition and standard of sin differ from individual to individual. Religion is not the momentum of emotion Rather its aim is to attain permanent rest and absoluteness. Anything that disturbs your peace of soul is sin for me. Every religion has spoken his language to convey the same. Approach is different but destination is same. Try to be in depth while dealing religion. Now a days Religious Leader are full of words and no enlightment .Thus sometimes they appear to be in more ambiguity then ordinary peoples. They are following words not the god so they are misleaded.

Once again, just another man's interpretation.

No need to dig to deep into this word salad.
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09-06-2015, 12:15 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 09:59 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 09:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I think it's very true, that theists for the most part are not surrounded or bombarded by their opposition. Though it does exists more so for them now, than it did perhaps 30 years ago. If you want to know what those alternative positions are, what the objections to theism, and religion are, a person would have to actively go out and look for it.

You make fervently believe the oppositions case is so complete, so persuasive, so compelling, and strong, that a person would have to jump through all sorts of hoops, and sloppy thinkings to reject it. But I don't, I find it all wanting, and hardly ever about the thing they are talking about. Watching a theists and atheists argue, is like watching two people arguing about two different things. Or two foreigners trying to argue using their own respective languages, unable to recognize their own misunderstandings.


That's your opinion, but I don't think it's a very good one. I'm not sure why it breaks down to these one or two simplistic options. What about options in which you're wrong and I'm right? Well that couldn't possibly be true right? You seem to a lack a great deal of imagination, if it all just breaks down to either I'm coward, or here to preach. If I was afraid of the dark, afraid of letting go, I'm not sure why I'd be surrounding myself with the dark? Wouldn't that perhaps negate an explanation of cowardliness at least?

What's obviously wrong with religion is obvious, so I just don't see your comparison of two people speaking different languages.

Do you believe in all the supernatural aspects in the Bible? That shit is pretty black and white, and if you say yes than why do we no longer see these supernatural things today? Only in religion are these illogical beliefs accepted. Religion leaves only faith as a fail safe and any logical person has to admit that their belief is founded only on faith alone. You believe simply because you want too. If it were as easy to believe as you do, you could provide us with at least one spec of compelling evidence or reason. But you don't, but don't feel bad because nobody ever has.
God is not a magician who is bound to show some miracles. He is the ultimate truth that is hidden in yourself. The truth that is eternal and also non avoidable.
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09-06-2015, 12:23 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 12:15 PM)Satyam Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 09:59 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  What's obviously wrong with religion is obvious, so I just don't see your comparison of two people speaking different languages.

Do you believe in all the supernatural aspects in the Bible? That shit is pretty black and white, and if you say yes than why do we no longer see these supernatural things today? Only in religion are these illogical beliefs accepted. Religion leaves only faith as a fail safe and any logical person has to admit that their belief is founded only on faith alone. You believe simply because you want too. If it were as easy to believe as you do, you could provide us with at least one spec of compelling evidence or reason. But you don't, but don't feel bad because nobody ever has.
God is not a magician who is bound to show some miracles. He is the ultimate truth that is hidden in yourself. The truth that is eternal and also non avoidable.

I've left a wad of spunk on a paper towel last night that had more meaning than the horseshit you just offered up.

Bring some proof or take your spiritual bullshit elsewhere.
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09-06-2015, 12:27 PM
RE: Jesus doesn't change people
(09-06-2015 12:15 PM)Satyam Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 09:59 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  What's obviously wrong with religion is obvious, so I just don't see your comparison of two people speaking different languages.

Do you believe in all the supernatural aspects in the Bible? That shit is pretty black and white, and if you say yes than why do we no longer see these supernatural things today? Only in religion are these illogical beliefs accepted. Religion leaves only faith as a fail safe and any logical person has to admit that their belief is founded only on faith alone. You believe simply because you want too. If it were as easy to believe as you do, you could provide us with at least one spec of compelling evidence or reason. But you don't, but don't feel bad because nobody ever has.
God is not a magician who is bound to show some miracles. He is the ultimate truth that is hidden in yourself. The truth that is eternal and also non avoidable.

He is certainly hidden in one's self. Deep inside the brain...as an imaginary figure.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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