Jesus historicity
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23-11-2014, 03:25 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(23-11-2014 02:29 PM)Luckyluciano Wrote:  ...use the same profanity culturally in their day today lives among those they do not know and have never met, or do they only do so here under the safety of Anonymity.......
through their all powerfully plastic keyboard?

"If you wouldn't write it and sign it, don't say it." - Earl Wilson

I don't go anywhere, I expect people that bring others here are insightful enough to warn their guests of the environmental hazard that is me.

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23-11-2014, 04:29 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2014 05:37 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus historicity
(23-11-2014 09:23 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-11-2014 06:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The trouble is, pretty much the only people who care or study the "Historicity of Jesus" at all, are religious people who are BOUND to say that he existed, (have an inherent conflict of interest, because they are employed by religious institutions who would FIRE them if they said otherwise).

Ah yes, the logic of creationism 101:

The trouble is, pretty much the only people who care or study the "Theory of Evolution" at all, are godless heathens who are BOUND to say that it is true, (have an inherent conflict of interest, because they are employed by secular institutions who would FIRE them if they said otherwise).

Or to quote the wikipedia summary of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed:

"The film contends that the mainstream science establishment suppresses academics who believe they see evidence of intelligent design in nature and who criticize evidence supporting Darwinian evolution and the modern evolutionary synthesis as a "scientific conspiracy to keep God out of the nation's laboratories and classrooms."

Creationist and Mythicist, and Ahistoricist think their views are rejected by academia as a whole, because of a conspiracy against them, when in fact they are rejected because their claims and beliefs are just plain stupid. But I would love, and even support a Kickstarter for atheists to create a documentary in support of the mainstream suppression of academics who believe that Jesus did not exists, for no other reason other than for a good laugh.

Quote:Dr. Richard Carrier IS a "serious scholar" with serious POINTS to rebut. No one ever rebuts his POINTS.

Of course they do. Bart Ehrman wrote an entire book refuting the beliefs of folks such as Carrier, and we can find a plethora or sources taking apart each and every aspect of Carrier's claims online, some good, some excellent, and some not so good. In fact I've personally refuted many of his claims as well, when he entered in a debate about historicity on Jerry Coyne's Website.

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/...-of-jesus/

It has been several months, and he has yet to respond to the numerous objections raised by me regarding his claims.

Bart Ehrman tried, and stopped responding to Carrier when it got awkward.
Actually if ONE could come up with ONE good reason why Evolution is incorrect or needed to be re-thought in any significant way, they would not only NOT be fired, they would get a Nobel Prize. There are all sorts of "tweaks" constantly being added to, and applied to the Theory of Evolution, (telomeres, epi-genetics) all the time, and THEY are not fired. So, idiot, you present yet another Fallacy of the False Analogy. Why would anyone enter into a debate with someone as ignorant as you have proven yourself to be ?
How about posting your nonsense on an academic site for those who are scholars of the ancient Near East. Oh you don't even know what those are. I get it.
Post what you posted there here. I think you're mistaken.
You have not rebutted anything Carrier said here.
It appears we have yet another theist suffering from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%...ger_effect
or is this another allusion "illusion" ?

I can find no reasoned SUBSTANTIATED anything in the thread you provided. If you are Tomas, then it's your normal list of crap, UNSUPPORTED by any scholarly reference.
I suspect it is you, as the claim YOU made, (but could provide NOT ONE similar example of "Greco-Roman biography"), and NEVER refuted the scholars I provided on the point : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...spels.html
There is nothing worth refuting there. IF the gospels ARE "Greco-Roman biographies" why would the authors go to all the trouble to MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE myth, and follow a mythic template ? Still WAITING for a similar example of a "Greco-Roman biography" (that claims it's also the "euangelion") for the cult in question.




If you're claiming that "gospels are biographies" then why did Paul refer to "his gospel" which he received from no man" ? Did Jebus hand him a "biography" ? Was HE referring to a written biography when he talks about "his gospel" in his letters ? Did HE write a biography too ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-11-2014, 05:32 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(23-11-2014 02:29 PM)Luckyluciano Wrote:  
(23-11-2014 08:38 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I love good quotes as much as the next guy so keep them coming.
The fact that you can find a quote to uphold or refute a position, especially off the top of your head, means you've taken the time read. Thumbsup

Now, as far as profanity and colorful language on this forum "Jo, you need to accept that we are going to lose, and lose big." from A Few Good Men.

Legislating speech is like legislating morality, everyone has a different definition of what constitutes each and thereby making it near impossible to have a standard. As for me I prefer to use it sparingly, I find that in real life it packs a much greater punch when used infrequently. However who am I to tell anyone here what they can or can't say? The best you can do is ignore it or find another place where language is strictly moderated.

At this point is where I say to you...(don't click here, it'll only upset you...really don't click on the spoiler...I beg you don't...)
Now go fuck off Big Grin


Now here is an interesting question.....

Do you think most of those here who regularly resort to profanity and cry freedom of speech, then wailing against censorship, use the same profanity culturally in their day today lives among those they do not know and have never met, or do they only do so here under the safety of Anonymity.......
through their all powerfully plastic keyboard?

"If you wouldn't write it and sign it, don't say it." - Earl Wilson

I have no idea, you'll have to ask them. Maybe you could start a poll?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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24-11-2014, 08:38 AM
RE: Jesus historicity
(23-11-2014 04:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  If you're claiming that "gospels are biographies" then why did Paul refer to "his gospel" which he received from no man" ? Did Jebus hand him a "biography" ? Was HE referring to a written biography when he talks about "his gospel" in his letters ? Did HE write a biography too ?

Paul was an arrogant self-important asshole who- upon being rejected to be an apostle by the church of Jerusalem- used a compilation of history and his own fabricated bullshit to create Christianity, and self-proclaim himself as an apostle to the gentiles.

That's about it.

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How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-11-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: Jesus historicity
(24-11-2014 08:38 AM)Free Wrote:  
(23-11-2014 04:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  If you're claiming that "gospels are biographies" then why did Paul refer to "his gospel" which he received from no man" ? Did Jebus hand him a "biography" ? Was HE referring to a written biography when he talks about "his gospel" in his letters ? Did HE write a biography too ?

Paul was an arrogant self-important asshole who- upon being rejected to be an apostle by the church of Jerusalem- used a compilation of history and his own fabricated bullshit to create Christianity, and self-proclaim himself as an apostle to the gentiles.

That's about it.

Drinking Beverage

Paulianity. The real religion they practice.
That IS about it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-11-2014, 09:15 AM
Re: RE: Jesus historicity
(24-11-2014 08:38 AM)Free Wrote:  
(23-11-2014 04:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  If you're claiming that "gospels are biographies" then why did Paul refer to "his gospel" which he received from no man" ? Did Jebus hand him a "biography" ? Was HE referring to a written biography when he talks about "his gospel" in his letters ? Did HE write a biography too ?

Paul was an arrogant self-important asshole who- upon being rejected to be an apostle by the church of Jerusalem- used a compilation of history and his own fabricated bullshit to create Christianity, and self-proclaim himself as an apostle to the gentiles.

That's about it.

Drinking Beverage
I love how all through his letters he boasts about how humble he is lol!
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24-11-2014, 10:22 AM
RE: Jesus historicity
(24-11-2014 09:15 AM)photon9 Wrote:  
(24-11-2014 08:38 AM)Free Wrote:  Paul was an arrogant self-important asshole who- upon being rejected to be an apostle by the church of Jerusalem- used a compilation of history and his own fabricated bullshit to create Christianity, and self-proclaim himself as an apostle to the gentiles.

That's about it.

Drinking Beverage
I love how all through his letters he boasts about how humble he is lol!

He was very boisterous and annoying. Here's a list of his self proclamations of being an apostle.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated to the gospel of God
1Co 1:1 Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead,
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus.
Col 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother
1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ according to the command of God our Savior, and of the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope,
2Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ (according to the faith of God's elect, in the acknowledging of the truth which is according to godliness

In Gal 1:1 he makes it perfectly clear that he was not called to be an apostle by any other man, such as the 12 in Jerusalem, but rather by Jesus Christ himself. Considering that we see him in a state of contention with other apostles and disciples, it is very unlikely the 12 granted him an apostleship as well as there is no record of them doing so.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-11-2014, 10:31 AM
RE: Jesus historicity
(24-11-2014 10:22 AM)Free Wrote:  
(24-11-2014 09:15 AM)photon9 Wrote:  I love how all through his letters he boasts about how humble he is lol!

He was very boisterous and annoying. Here's a list of his self proclamations of being an apostle.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated to the gospel of God
1Co 1:1 Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead,
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus.
Col 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother
1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ according to the command of God our Savior, and of the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope,
2Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ (according to the faith of God's elect, in the acknowledging of the truth which is according to godliness

In Gal 1:1 he makes it perfectly clear that he was not called to be an apostle by any other man, such as the 12 in Jerusalem, but rather by Jesus Christ himself. Considering that we see him in a state of contention with other apostles and disciples, it is very unlikely the 12 granted him an apostleship as well as there is no record of them doing so.

In Acts and Galatians (maybe Corinthians ??) it talks about the "gift" he made to the community in Jerusalem. He either tried to buy or bribe his way in.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-11-2014, 10:46 AM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2014 11:23 AM by Free.)
RE: Jesus historicity
(24-11-2014 10:31 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-11-2014 10:22 AM)Free Wrote:  He was very boisterous and annoying. Here's a list of his self proclamations of being an apostle.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated to the gospel of God
1Co 1:1 Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead,
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus.
Col 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother
1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ according to the command of God our Savior, and of the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope,
2Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ (according to the faith of God's elect, in the acknowledging of the truth which is according to godliness

In Gal 1:1 he makes it perfectly clear that he was not called to be an apostle by any other man, such as the 12 in Jerusalem, but rather by Jesus Christ himself. Considering that we see him in a state of contention with other apostles and disciples, it is very unlikely the 12 granted him an apostleship as well as there is no record of them doing so.

In Acts and Galatians (maybe Corinthians ??) it talks about the "gift" he made to the community in Jerusalem. He either tried to buy or bribe his way in.

1Co 16:1 - 1C0 16:3 - And concerning the collection for the saints, as I charged the churches of Galatia, so also you do. On the first of the sabbaths let each of you put by himself, storing up what ever he is prospered, so that there may be no collections when I come. And when I come, whomever you shall approve by your letters, I will send them to bring your gift to Jerusalem.

Yes, he is talking about a "collections plate" that collected money to be sent to the church in Jerusalem. The "saints" are the apostles in Jerusalem who were likely besieged by poverty due to being rejected by the Jewish community there. However, I believe his "financial support" was rejected by James in Jerusalem.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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