Jesus historicity
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15-11-2014, 03:19 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(15-11-2014 03:02 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(15-11-2014 03:00 PM)Free Wrote:  Your statement above does not demonstrate any kind of "back and fortth" action that you propose, but rather demonstrates that history- particularly ancient history- was written from a biased point of view. And that is true.

But bias does not mean it is a lie.

The Roman's war with the Jews was much bigger than the trivialized importance you give to it. Judea was a big province, and it was full of people who's religious beliefs darkly contrasted with the polytheism of the Romans.


In those days, and even in modern times, you do not often see anyone going to war with someone they love.

You want to kill them. You want them dead. You want to string them up on a cross and spit on them.

Can you feel the love?

Big Grin


Incorrect. The Jews WERE passionately hated by the Romans, and the Romans were defined by their polytheistic beliefs. If you were monotheistic, you were either a Jew, or something else, and were persecuted and hated by the Roman people and authorities.

Reality is not black and white... why do you boil this down to Hate/Love? What purpose does this serve or benefit does this construe? Repeating claims or assertions doesn't adjust anything about them.

Somehow I get the impression that you think I need to quote numerous and endless sources to demonstrate to you that the Romans hated the Jews.

As if two well documented wars, numerous writings of Romans that I have posted using the exact word of "hate" wasn't enough.

If that doesn't do it for you, then it becomes apparent that no amount of references will.

Like one army is going to go fight and kill another army because they love them.

Seriously ...

Quote:What is incorrect about your statements not being just statements? Without given descriptive reasoning or evidence about it, they're statements. By your reasonin Rome hated everyone non-Roman god believing.. there's no value in any distinction of the jews if that was the case anyway.

I gave the info and documents. Did you even lOOk at them? What do you think I am going to do? Post more? What's the point?

Quote:To bring it on point.. none of what you've been adding here or saying brings any more reason for the Christians/Jews over others to have been picked out and for their leaders to be scoffed at in written texts. It doesn't add any reason to think Jesus was real or that Christ was written out by Tacitus because he hated Christians.

Well I guess we'll just have to take your word for it?

Bowing

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15-11-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(15-11-2014 03:19 PM)Free Wrote:  
(15-11-2014 03:02 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Reality is not black and white... why do you boil this down to Hate/Love? What purpose does this serve or benefit does this construe? Repeating claims or assertions doesn't adjust anything about them.

Somehow I get the impression that you think I need to quote numerous and endless sources to demonstrate to you that the Romans hated the Jews.

As if two well documented wars, numerous writings of Romans that I have posted using the exact word of "hate" wasn't enough.

If that doesn't do it for you, then it becomes apparent that no amount of references will.

Like one army is going to go fight and kill another army because they love them.

Seriously ...

Quote:What is incorrect about your statements not being just statements? Without given descriptive reasoning or evidence about it, they're statements. By your reasonin Rome hated everyone non-Roman god believing.. there's no value in any distinction of the jews if that was the case anyway.

I gave the info and documents. Did you even lOOk at them? What do you think I am going to do? Post more? What's the point?

Quote:To bring it on point.. none of what you've been adding here or saying brings any more reason for the Christians/Jews over others to have been picked out and for their leaders to be scoffed at in written texts. It doesn't add any reason to think Jesus was real or that Christ was written out by Tacitus because he hated Christians.

Well I guess we'll just have to take your word for it?

Bowing

The Roman's had no more of a 'hatred' to the Jew's than they had for any other non-Roman. Where yes, yes I would love to see a citation stating that the Roman's had a sustained 'hatred' of the Jews and were simply out to get them. If this was the case, the Roman's would have simply laid waste to everything and anyone in Judea who was not of Rome, like they did the Carthaginian's. Try to erase any reference and evidence of their existence (which they did a pretty good job on the Carthaginian's of just doing that).

Rome dealt with the Jew's, as they dealt with any other unruly populace countless times over their thousand year reign. They quelled the uprising by force and made examples of the rebels. There was no biases or prejudice involved. To go against Rome in any way meant death, plain and simple.

Arguing with a Christian is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon. You can be the greatest player in the world, yet the pigeon will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and strut away triumphantly.
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15-11-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(15-11-2014 03:29 PM)StorMFront Wrote:  
(15-11-2014 03:19 PM)Free Wrote:  Somehow I get the impression that you think I need to quote numerous and endless sources to demonstrate to you that the Romans hated the Jews.

As if two well documented wars, numerous writings of Romans that I have posted using the exact word of "hate" wasn't enough.

If that doesn't do it for you, then it becomes apparent that no amount of references will.

Like one army is going to go fight and kill another army because they love them.

Seriously ...


I gave the info and documents. Did you even lOOk at them? What do you think I am going to do? Post more? What's the point?


Well I guess we'll just have to take your word for it?

Bowing

The Roman's had no more of a 'hatred' to the Jew's than they had for any other non-Roman.

I guess that is why they constantly killed the Jews then. They did it because they didn't hate them at all?

So let's pick a reason why they did it.

They loved them?
They took mercy on them?
They were completely indifferent?


Come on. Pick something. Tell me WHY the Romans killed thousands of Jews in the wars and in between the wars through persecutions.

You tell me why the Roman's did this.

Big Grin

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15-11-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
I was going to go to the movies, but this is way better and surely will keep me entertained all night. Keep beating the horse, it never gets old.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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15-11-2014, 03:35 PM (This post was last modified: 15-11-2014 03:44 PM by StorMRising.)
RE: Jesus historicity
(15-11-2014 03:32 PM)Free Wrote:  
(15-11-2014 03:29 PM)StorMFront Wrote:  The Roman's had no more of a 'hatred' to the Jew's than they had for any other non-Roman.

I guess that is why they constantly killed the Jews then. They did it because they didn't hate them at all?

So let's pick a reason why they did it.

They loved them?
They took mercy on them?
They were completely indifferent?


Come on. Pick something. Tell me WHY the Romans killed thousands of Jews in the wars and in between the wars through persecutions.

You tell me why the Roman's did this.

Big Grin

Citations for'they were constantly killing the jews'?
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15-11-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(15-11-2014 03:32 PM)Free Wrote:  
(15-11-2014 03:29 PM)StorMFront Wrote:  The Roman's had no more of a 'hatred' to the Jew's than they had for any other non-Roman.

I guess that is why they constantly killed the Jews then. They did it because they didn't hate them at all?

So let's pick a reason why they did it.

They loved them?
They took mercy on them?
They were completely indifferent?


Come on. Pick something. Tell me WHY the Romans killed thousands of Jews in the wars and in between the wars through persecutions.

You tell me why the Roman's did this.

Big Grin

They did it because that's how they maintained an empire. Is there evidence they killed a higher percentage of Jews than any other nation they conquered ? Did they indiscriminately kill Jews any more than they did anyone else ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-11-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(15-11-2014 03:32 PM)Free Wrote:  
(15-11-2014 03:29 PM)StorMFront Wrote:  The Roman's had no more of a 'hatred' to the Jew's than they had for any other non-Roman.

I guess that is why they constantly killed the Jews then. They did it because they didn't hate them at all?

So let's pick a reason why they did it.

They loved them?
They took mercy on them?
They were completely indifferent?


Come on. Pick something. Tell me WHY the Romans killed thousands of Jews in the wars and in between the wars through persecutions.

You tell me why the Roman's did this.

Big Grin


And how were the Jew's treated differently than the Gaul's, or any of numerous Germanic tribes? Countless more people suffered under Roman rule in Northern Europe than that of the middle-east. They did not hate them, they thought they were above them. They were simply tools and subjects for Rome to use and were expendable, nothing more. Where we actually can refer to known history to demonstrate what Rome actually does to peoples it 'hates'. The Jew's simply do not fall under that category of genocide.

Arguing with a Christian is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon. You can be the greatest player in the world, yet the pigeon will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and strut away triumphantly.
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15-11-2014, 03:48 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(15-11-2014 03:35 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  I was going to go to the movies, but this is way better and surely will keep me entertained all night. Keep beating the horse, it never gets old.

For fuck sakes, some of these bastards have resurrected Jesus, who has now resurrected that dead fucking horse.

I don't know if I have enough interest to keep this going. All these dumb mythicist arguments have been destroyed many many MANY times.

I'll come back if I get bored of doing something more interesting.

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15-11-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(15-11-2014 03:38 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(15-11-2014 03:32 PM)Free Wrote:  I guess that is why they constantly killed the Jews then. They did it because they didn't hate them at all?

So let's pick a reason why they did it.

They loved them?
They took mercy on them?
They were completely indifferent?


Come on. Pick something. Tell me WHY the Romans killed thousands of Jews in the wars and in between the wars through persecutions.

You tell me why the Roman's did this.

Big Grin

They did it because that's how they maintained an empire. Is there evidence they killed a higher percentage of Jews than any other nation they conquered ? Did they indiscriminately kill Jews any more than they did anyone else ?

That's not the point Buck. The point is very simple.

They killed them because they hated them. It doesn't matter who else they hated. It's irrelevant.

You have studied enough to know how the Romans were. They were based on religious philosophy just like almost all other cultures. Pliny's letters demonstrate their hatred of the Christian sect, and how they persecuted them and forced them to worship the Roman gods instead of Christ, or they killed them.

You don't kill people because you love them.

Big Grin

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15-11-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: Jesus historicity
(15-11-2014 03:58 PM)Free Wrote:  
(15-11-2014 03:38 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  They did it because that's how they maintained an empire. Is there evidence they killed a higher percentage of Jews than any other nation they conquered ? Did they indiscriminately kill Jews any more than they did anyone else ?

That's not the point Buck. The point is very simple.

They killed them because they hated them. It doesn't matter who else they hated. It's irrelevant.

Maintaining the empire meant to maintain the belief system.

You have studied enough to know how the Romans were. They were based on religious philosophy just like almost all other cultures. Pliny's letters demonstrate their hatred of the Christian sect, and how they persecuted them and forced them to worship the Roman gods instead of Christ, or they killed them.

You don't kill people because you love them.

Big Grin

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