Jesus in the desert
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20-10-2014, 03:21 PM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(20-10-2014 11:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-10-2014 10:34 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So Jesus is alone in the desert being tempted by the devil and has this conversation with the Bad Guy . Ok, so who wrote down what was said? How do theists know that these were the exact words Jesus said to the devil? Theists go crazy over each and every little word and treat each word like it's a gold nugget to be weighed and discussed ad nauseam. Yet theists never think about the practicalities of getting the precise words from Jesus' mouth onto a page especially when the guy was supposed to be alone out in the desert.

When I first learned about this story (I was in college at the time) that's the very first thing I thought of. Who was there to record it?

The other "alone story" is the Garden of Gethsemane when he goes out alone while the others are asleep.

To those of you who were at one time believers, did this ever cross your mind?

It has crossed my mind. And I am surprised that no one so far has provided some simple possibilities (assuming text is accurate). Jesus could have told the story of his desert pilgrimage to followers--one rather simple explanation. Moses was both a writer (if you believe Moses wrote some of his five books, I don't think he wrote all their content) and wrote down what he experienced.

In the story of little Red Riding Hood the wolf says:
Quote:The wolf thought to himself: 'What a tender young creature! what a nice plump mouthful - she will be better to eat than the old woman. I must act craftily, so as to catch both.'

Who was there to write down what the wolf said?

Answer-no one, it's a book of fiction.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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20-10-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(20-10-2014 11:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-10-2014 10:34 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So Jesus is alone in the desert being tempted by the devil and has this conversation with the Bad Guy . Ok, so who wrote down what was said? How do theists know that these were the exact words Jesus said to the devil? Theists go crazy over each and every little word and treat each word like it's a gold nugget to be weighed and discussed ad nauseam. Yet theists never think about the practicalities of getting the precise words from Jesus' mouth onto a page especially when the guy was supposed to be alone out in the desert.

When I first learned about this story (I was in college at the time) that's the very first thing I thought of. Who was there to record it?

The other "alone story" is the Garden of Gethsemane when he goes out alone while the others are asleep.

To those of you who were at one time believers, did this ever cross your mind?

It has crossed my mind. And I am surprised that no one so far has provided some simple possibilities (assuming text is accurate). Jesus could have told the story of his desert pilgrimage to followers--one rather simple explanation. Moses was both a writer (if you believe Moses wrote some of his five books, I don't think he wrote all their content) and wrote down what he experienced.

So Jesus returns from the desert and tells his followers " Hey, I was out in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights and spoke with the devil who tempted me and I told the devil to go away and some angels brought me some food and now I'm back"...... and his followers bought it.

[Image: hahahaha-they-totally-bought-it.jpg]

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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21-10-2014, 02:55 AM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(20-10-2014 11:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-10-2014 10:34 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So Jesus is alone in the desert being tempted by the devil and has this conversation with the Bad Guy . Ok, so who wrote down what was said? How do theists know that these were the exact words Jesus said to the devil? Theists go crazy over each and every little word and treat each word like it's a gold nugget to be weighed and discussed ad nauseam. Yet theists never think about the practicalities of getting the precise words from Jesus' mouth onto a page especially when the guy was supposed to be alone out in the desert.

When I first learned about this story (I was in college at the time) that's the very first thing I thought of. Who was there to record it?

The other "alone story" is the Garden of Gethsemane when he goes out alone while the others are asleep.

To those of you who were at one time believers, did this ever cross your mind?

It has crossed my mind. And I am surprised that no one so far has provided some simple possibilities (assuming text is accurate). Jesus could have told the story of his desert pilgrimage to followers--one rather simple explanation. Moses was both a writer (if you believe Moses wrote some of his five books, I don't think he wrote all their content) and wrote down what he experienced.

Moses is a myth... Facepalm

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21-10-2014, 05:52 AM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(21-10-2014 02:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Moses is a myth... Facepalm

Yabut, Bible! Bible says so!
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21-10-2014, 06:12 AM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(18-10-2014 10:34 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So Jesus is alone in the desert being tempted by the devil and has this conversation with the Bad Guy . Ok, so who wrote down what was said?

Each writer of the synoptic gospels.

Quote:How do theists know that these were the exact words Jesus said to the devil? Theists go crazy over each and every little word and treat each word like it's a gold nugget to be weighed and discussed ad nauseam. Yet theists never think about the practicalities of getting the precise words from Jesus' mouth onto a page especially when the guy was supposed to be alone out in the desert.

Well, the view among certain evangelicals would be that while there was no eye witness to these accounts who penned them, the writers or purveyors of these accounts where either inspired by the spirit, or Jesus had told the disciples about this event and his response to the devil.

Most likely the event never took place, the followers of Jesus likely knew very little about his life outside of his relatively short ministry, and used certain fictional elements, to convey what they believed was the meaning and message of Jesus. This is not unusual for biographies in the ancient world, particularly for one's regarding religious figures.

Quote:To those of you who were at one time believers, did this ever cross your mind?

Well, I'm still a believer, and no the question never really entered my mind, because I don't think I ever accepted the fundie evangelical understandings of these texts, even though I was raised in such a community. I loved narratives, and in essence always treated biblical stories as such, even if they included historical aspects in them.
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21-10-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(21-10-2014 06:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Well, I'm still a believer, and no the question never really entered my mind, because I don't think I ever accepted the fundie evangelical understandings of these texts, even though I was raised in such a community. I loved narratives, and in essence always treated biblical stories as such, even if they included historical aspects in them.

Tomasia,
Welcome to the forum. You appear to be different from the run of the mill theists we get here who are usually a) whacko or b) drive-by posters or c) both

Please explain how you decide what to believe in among the plethora of narratives preserved in the Christian tradition. How do you decide what is "fundie" and what is not?

Regards,
Doc
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21-10-2014, 09:15 AM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(18-10-2014 10:34 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  ...
Ok, so who wrote down what was said?
...

Holy ... ghost writers!

Drinking Beverage

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21-10-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(21-10-2014 05:52 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(21-10-2014 02:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Moses is a myth... Facepalm

Yabut, Bible! Bible says so!

That is a belittling way of addressing my points:

a) That I was late to the party on this thread but noticed everyone mocking the text.

b) That a simple application of logic solves the problem.

There's quite a difference between textual critical appraisal and "yabut! says so!" But you bring up the fact for me that the Bible isn't one book but 66 written by dozens of authors over a period of time and that we have written documents in evidence that antecede our musings.

Perhaps you can provide a book about their being no god at all, explaining that most people who've ever lived are incorrect, that has evidence within and not reasoned (or angry) speculations?

Yabut you got nothing. Sorry, but that's how you're treating my arguments. With extreme disrespect. You're smarter than the types of "arguments" you're making. Please do better.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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21-10-2014, 12:16 PM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(21-10-2014 12:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  There's quite a difference between textual critical appraisal and "yabut! says so!" But you bring up the fact for me that the Bible isn't one book but 66 written by dozens of authors over a period of time and that we have written documents in evidence that antecede our musings.

All the analysis of the books allegedly written by Moses indicates that they are not nearly as old as the apologists would like to believe. They believe what they believe, because they want to believe.

"Yabut, Bible. Bible says so", while certainly belittling, makes most of the same point.


(21-10-2014 12:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Perhaps you can provide a book about their being no god at all, explaining that most people who've ever lived are incorrect, that has evidence within and not reasoned (or angry) speculations?

Why? Why do I need to waste my time disproving a nonfalsifiable belief system for which there is no non-presuppositional evidence? Perhaps I should waste my time disproving leprechauns and unicorns, while I'm at it.

Until someone can give me a good reason to believe in any of those things, I think it's fair to dismiss them as unsubstantiated assertions.
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21-10-2014, 12:26 PM
RE: Jesus in the desert
(21-10-2014 12:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Perhaps you can provide a book about their being no god at all, explaining that most people who've ever lived are incorrect, that has evidence within and not reasoned (or angry) speculations?

There are a whole lot of science books out there and there is indeed evidence that falsifies many parts of the bible. If you really want to go down that path, many of us already have.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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