Jesus myth
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-01-2014, 12:02 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(22-01-2014 11:51 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 10:49 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Does that negate the possibility that there was some guy that actually existed that served as the basis for a few of the threads that were woven together to form the portrait of Jesus that we now have? No.

Nor do I think it negates the possibility of it. That's certainly not my argument. My argument is merely, that I find Jesus' appearance in parables to be unusual. I'm just not aware of this being done with other people known to be historical. Maybe I'm wrong about that, and if someone knows of it, I'd love to hear it.

...but, if I'm right that this is unusual or possibly even unique...then why am I wrong to think of it as significant evidence that Jesus started out as a character in parables?

The story of young George Washington and the cherry tree is a parable.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
23-01-2014, 12:36 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(23-01-2014 12:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  The story of young George Washington and the cherry tree is a parable.

And here all this time I thought it was just bullshit. Tongue


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
23-01-2014, 12:57 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(22-01-2014 11:51 PM)toadaly Wrote:  Nor do I think it negates the possibility of it. That's certainly not my argument. My argument is merely, that I find Jesus' appearance in parables to be unusual. I'm just not aware of this being done with other people known to be historical. Maybe I'm wrong about that, and if someone knows of it, I'd love to hear it.

...but, if I'm right that this is unusual or possibly even unique...then why am I wrong to think of it as significant evidence that Jesus started out as a character in parables?

Hi, T, welcome to the forum. The fellow we know as the Buddha was also featured in a multitude of parables, many of which appear in the Nikayas, especially in the Samyutta Nikaya books of tales involving devas, devattas, and other mythical figures; and also, probably more well-known, in the Jataka stories.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-01-2014, 01:32 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(22-01-2014 09:37 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I don't understand why you're so hot headed about it.

No you don't because you are contributing to the problem.

Quote: Nearly everyone here has done a whole lot of research, and we all have different opinions. I like to tell people about my conclusions, but I'm not going to abuse others for not agreeing with me.

Your response to people that don't agree with you is to state that you are a doctor with 20-years in general practice as if that is in any way germane. If the debate were about wart removal methods then your experience may be relevant but it isn't so your appeals to your own authority are vacuous. What you are abusing when you do this are the canons of rational discourse.

Quote:What are we talking about anyway? (he asks rhetorically). A cartoon character. That cartoon character may or may not be based on somebody who once existed, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter because we all know (well, nearly all) the cartoon character is fake.

No, that isn't what we are talking about. What we are actually talking about is making good the tacit commitment to evidence and reason that most of the members here have implicitly given in their rejection of religion. Rejecting deities is not the end of the journey it is only the beginning. The aim should be to become clear-thinking well-informed people not delusional dilettantes that trivialize serious scholarship and act as if anyone can do NT-studies.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chippy's post
23-01-2014, 01:35 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(22-01-2014 11:00 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  Yes, mountains rushing together and fields changing places...and reporting that it happened in his own time. Try reading Livy and note the absurd "prodigies" recorded by that sophisticated Roman writer. It doesn't matter if he believed them or not. Try to get that through your thick fucking head! These were the kinds of things that they recorded.

You still don't understand the difference between social history and natural history.

Messianic Judaism has nothing to do with natural history.

Quote:You can sit there and pontificate about what it takes to convince you and I repeat that I don't give a flying fuck what you think. No one died and made you the king of reason. When jesus freaks insist that their boy was real they follow the traditional circle and end up with "the bible says."

You have a strong commitment to maintaining your own ignorance.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chippy's post
23-01-2014, 01:42 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(23-01-2014 01:35 AM)Chippy Wrote:  You still don't understand the difference between social history and natural history.

Could you expand upon that? Now I'm all curious and shit. Big Grin

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-01-2014, 01:46 AM (This post was last modified: 23-01-2014 01:51 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Jesus myth
[Image: avatar_28935.jpg?dateline=1380619878]<----- Chickenshit whiny pussy who talks tough when folks let him get away with it and runs like a rabbit when the shit gets real. That black ring around his mouth came off of BrownShitForBrains' asshole, and the black on his eyebrows came from motorboating makdikless' buttcrack.



EDIT: 1900 posts, Bitchez! [Image: bananas.gif]

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Taqiyya Mockingbird's post
23-01-2014, 10:47 AM (This post was last modified: 23-01-2014 10:52 AM by Free.)
RE: Jesus myth
(22-01-2014 10:15 AM)Free Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 10:09 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Oh fuck, not another Carrier v. Ehrman shitstorm... Dodgy

Carrier has no fucking hope. He's an internet junkie looking for some kind of notoriety with his mythicism bullshit, which has already been effectively refuted numerous times by the vast majority of world scholars.

In fact I am going to call Bart right now and see what I can do to help. I have an "inside line." Smile

Okay I spoke to Prof Bart Ehrman and this is what he has to say:

Quote: John,



Thanks for your email, and congratulations on your part in carrying the torch!


I’m afraid I never debate mythicists in public, so, unfortunately, there’s nothing you can help me on. I’m actually not eager to do so, as it gives them the kind of street creds they’re so eager for.

But good luck for any debates of your own coming up. All best,



- Bart Ehrman

I can't say I blame him for not wanting to get into the internet scene with the mythicists.

His congratulation to me was in reference to some debates/publications of mine he was aware of and reviewed.

And yes, my name is John.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? I am an atheist because it is the natural state of being we are all born into.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-01-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(23-01-2014 10:47 AM)Free Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 10:15 AM)Free Wrote:  Carrier has no fucking hope. He's an internet junkie looking for some kind of notoriety with his mythicism bullshit, which has already been effectively refuted numerous times by the vast majority of world scholars.

In fact I am going to call Bart right now and see what I can do to help. I have an "inside line." Smile

Okay I spoke to Prof Bart Ehrman and this is what he has to say:

Quote: John,



Thanks for your email, and congratulations on your part in carrying the torch!


I’m afraid I never debate mythicists in public, so, unfortunately, there’s nothing you can help me on. I’m actually not eager to do so, as it gives them the kind of street creds they’re so eager for.

But good luck for any debates of your own coming up. All best,



- Bart Ehrman

I can't say I blame him for not wanting to get into the internet scene with the mythicists.

His congratulation to me was in reference to some debates/publications of mine he was aware of and reviewed.

And yes, my name is John.

[Image: JytugvB.jpg]

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-01-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: Jesus myth
(22-01-2014 11:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 10:44 AM)Free Wrote:  Click the link and investigate, because it has links on that webpage that take you to where you can find the consensus.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory


Free, you're smart enough to know that consensus does not determine truth.

Nothing ever determines absolute truth, yet a consensus arrived upon by dozens of experts in the field is a powerful persuasion. They are a collective of intelligence which is totally unlike an appeal to authority, which is generally reserved for a singular authority as opposed to a collective.

Quote: You have to give Carrier credit in that he admits that you should concede to the expert consensus unless you have a good reason to doubt the consensus. He put forth that very case, attacking the fundamentally flawed underpinnings and foundation that the historical Jesus consensus is built upon. He investigated the methods used by historians and discovered that the consensus among those who critiqued historian's techniques, was that they were flawed or applied fallaciously. Thus there is a good reason to doubt the consensus. But that wasn't enough and so he worked on and put forwards a method of applying Bayesian analysis to the historical methods as a more sound method of evaluating evidence; spelled out in his 'Proving History'. I have yet to read Carrier's work on the historicity of Jesus because it hasn't been published yet, because he's jumping through all of the academic and peer review hoops and getting published through legitimate academic channels (Sheffield-Phoenix, University of Sheffield, UK). I have however read 'Proving History' and found it interesting and informative, if a bit dry. Have you read 'Proving History'? Or are you going to critique work that hasn't been published yet?

Carrier's problem is confirmation bias. He's a mythicist out and out, and we need to view him from that position.

So he now believes he has created a better way to evaluate evidence than all the rest of the world's historians? He's decided that history should somehow be determined only by the way he views it?

Seriously, it doesn't matter what kind of theorem Carrier uses because at the end of the day, it is what it is, or it ain't what it ain't. What Carrier is trying to do is confirm to himself that the following are true:

1. Tacitus on Christus is an interpolation.
2. Testimonium Flavium is a total interpolation.
3. "James, brother of Jesus called Christ" in Antiquities is an interpolation.

Everything he does is grounded in confirmation bias and anchored to the Christ Myth Theory. He's not looking for the truth at all. He's looking ONLY for a myth, and when his book is published he will indeed be destroyed by it.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? I am an atheist because it is the natural state of being we are all born into.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: