Jesus myth
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24-01-2014, 10:00 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2014 10:20 PM by TwoCultSurvivor.)
RE: Jesus myth
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24-01-2014, 10:02 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2014 10:21 PM by TwoCultSurvivor.)
RE: Jesus myth
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24-01-2014, 10:05 PM
RE: Jesus myth
Any account given by any historian is by definition not a primary source, with one exception: if the person in question is writing an autobiography. Historians are not primary sources. Historians rely on primary sources.
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24-01-2014, 11:50 PM
RE: Jesus myth
(24-01-2014 06:18 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Well, that's little more than your personal interpretation.

...it's not my original idea. It might be baseless and wrong, and at this point, I can't even recall where I read it. But I'm not nearly clever or well versed enough in first century Jewish symbolsim to invent it.

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24-01-2014, 11:57 PM
RE: Jesus myth
(24-01-2014 09:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Allow me to diverge a little and give my two cents worth on whether an historical Jesus actually existed.

I believe he probably did, although not for the reasons that are usually given. I think that the fact there was a group of Jews, the Nazarenes , who soldiered on for a few centuries after Jesus died and believed that he had been their leader for a brief time is the best evidence that there was a once a Jesus.

How is that evidence of anything more than the fact that some time after 30 CE, people believed Jesus to have been real? It's not even unlikely that the Nazarenes, are simply the continuation of the Essenes ...as Christianity itself might be.

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25-01-2014, 12:05 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(23-01-2014 11:30 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  But at any rate, even if he were fictional, the actual teachings attributed to him in the Nikayas stand up well in their own right, regardless of their actual source.

That is irrelevant to the discussion Tourette's Chimp.
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25-01-2014, 12:17 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(24-01-2014 11:57 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 09:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Allow me to diverge a little and give my two cents worth on whether an historical Jesus actually existed.

I believe he probably did, although not for the reasons that are usually given. I think that the fact there was a group of Jews, the Nazarenes , who soldiered on for a few centuries after Jesus died and believed that he had been their leader for a brief time is the best evidence that there was a once a Jesus.

How is that evidence of anything more than the fact that some time after 30 CE, people believed Jesus to have been real? It's not even unlikely that the Nazarenes, are simply the continuation of the Essenes ...as Christianity itself might be.

Well, They weren't Christians so they didn't have any motivation to invent stories about Jesus. They were his original followers and family. So, quite independent of all the Christian nonsense they believed that he had existed.
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25-01-2014, 12:21 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(24-01-2014 11:57 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 09:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Allow me to diverge a little and give my two cents worth on whether an historical Jesus actually existed.

I believe he probably did, although not for the reasons that are usually given. I think that the fact there was a group of Jews, the Nazarenes , who soldiered on for a few centuries after Jesus died and believed that he had been their leader for a brief time is the best evidence that there was a once a Jesus.

How is that evidence of anything more than the fact that some time after 30 CE, people believed Jesus to have been real? It's not even unlikely that the Nazarenes, are simply the continuation of the Essenes ...as Christianity itself might be.

Yes. I think the Nazarenes were Essenes. However Christianity, as we know it today, is something completely different, because it is not Jewish.
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25-01-2014, 12:46 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(25-01-2014 12:21 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Yes. I think the Nazarenes were Essenes. However Christianity, as we know it today, is something completely different, because it is not Jewish.

...this is the nature of cults. They tend to spring new cults left and right, some so different from the parent cult, as to be almost unrecognizable. I would say this though, before saying Christianity isn't Jewish, you would need to have a very good knowledge of what 1st and 2nd century Judaism was like, as well as early Christianity. It may turn out, that Judaism was not all orthodox at that time.

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25-01-2014, 12:53 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(25-01-2014 12:46 AM)toadaly Wrote:  
(25-01-2014 12:21 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Yes. I think the Nazarenes were Essenes. However Christianity, as we know it today, is something completely different, because it is not Jewish.

...this is the nature of cults. They tend to spring new cults left and right, some so different from the parent cult, as to be almost unrecognizable. I would say this though, before saying Christianity isn't Jewish, you would need to have a very good knowledge of what 1st and 2nd century Judaism was like, as well as early Christianity. It may turn out, that Judaism was not all orthodox at that time.

Yes. The relationship between first and second century Judaism and Christianity is very complex and interesting. In fact I've written a book on it.
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