Jesus myth
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25-01-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: Jesus myth
To clarify once again, I am not saying Jesus never existed. I am saying Tacitus doesn't prove it. Not by a long shot. By insisting he does prove it, you are making a host of unsubstantiated assumptions, and howling like a wounded cat when I point out the flaws in your argument. Your approach to this discussion started d on the right foot, but has since deteriorated to the kind of arrogance and condescension I would expect of the most rabid fundamentalist. I do not appreciate your condescending attitude and I choose here and now to no longer engage it.
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25-01-2014, 09:21 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(25-01-2014 08:55 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Enough with the ad hominem and appeal to authority! You can laugh at my objections all you want, but that's a poor excuse for answering them. You clearly have no idea what a primary source is, or you would not make such ignorant statements about them.

And you sir, have utterly failed to raise any reasonable objections. Once again, all you have done is use arguments from silence and mere assertion.

Or do you seriously think that your objections have actually offered any evidence whatsoever to dispute what Tacitus said?

Really? Where? Gather your objections together and show me the actual evidence.

Take your time. I can wait.

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25-01-2014, 09:29 AM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2014 09:36 AM by Free.)
RE: Jesus myth
(25-01-2014 09:02 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  To clarify once again, I am not saying Jesus never existed. I am saying Tacitus doesn't prove it. Not by a long shot.

And what part of my previous statements where I said, "On its own, Tacitus proves nothing. But as part of the historical record, it's another piece to the puzzle that adds to the equation which adds up to favoring existence" did you fail to understand?

You see, this is why your argument fails. You totally ignore the comments of your adversaries and try to pretend they said nothing. It's easy to attack any singular piece of evidence on its own and summarily dismiss it. Any idiot can do that. But try attacking the big picture and you are left in the dust.

Typical Christ Myth Theorist maneuver.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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25-01-2014, 09:36 AM
RE: Jesus myth
You lie.

Sorry, but I no longer believe you are approaching this conversation honestly or with the kind of respect to which I am entitled (as well as everyone else). I refuse to take your bait. You are the one who has a case to prove, not I. You have failed to prove your case, so you shift the burden of proof by demanding my evidence, all the while lecturing me about logical fallacies and arguments from silence. The hypocritical nerve!
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25-01-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(25-01-2014 09:29 AM)Free Wrote:  
(25-01-2014 09:02 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  To clarify once again, I am not saying Jesus never existed. I am saying Tacitus doesn't prove it. Not by a long shot.

And what part of my previous statements where I said, "On its own, Tacitus proves nothing. But as part of the historical record, it's another piece to the puzzle that adds to the equation which adds up to favoring existence" did you fail to understand?

You see, this is why your argument fails. You totally ignore the comments of your adversaries and try to pretend they said nothing. It's easy to attack any singular piece of evidence on its own and summarily dismiss it. Any idiot can do that. But try attacking the big picture and you are left in the dust.

Typical Christ Myth Theorist maneuver.

It seems to me that many are simply saying that it is a very tiny piece of said puzzle, and that you may be giving it more importance than it deserves.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-01-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: Jesus myth
"On its own, Tacitus proves nothing."

Why not?
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25-01-2014, 09:43 AM
RE: Jesus myth
Seems to me that if you really believed Tacitus proved nothing (which you don't. That's a lie. Your defense of the historical value of that line betrays you), you would have spent this conversation agreeing with me rather than crawling up my underwear looking for dingleberries.
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25-01-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(25-01-2014 09:36 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  You lie.

Sorry, but I no longer believe you are approaching this conversation honestly or with the kind of respect to which I am entitled (as well as everyone else). I refuse to take your bait. You are the one who has a case to prove, not I. You have failed to prove your case, so you shift the burden of proof by demanding my evidence, all the while lecturing me about logical fallacies and arguments from silence. The hypocritical nerve!

And what part of "self-evident" do you fail to understand? Just the mere existence of what Tacitus said is a +1 as evidence, and is added to the equation.

You can assert whatever you want in regards to what is self evident, but at the end of the day the evidence exists despite anything you assert.

Therefore, because it is self-evident, if you think there is something wrong with that evidence then you need to provide "counter-evidence" to contest it, because mere assertion and bluster simply doesn't cut it.

Is it an interpolation? No evidence.
Does it refer to Jesus of Nazareth? Plenty of evidence to support that position.

But what is proven? Nothing, because in ancient history nothing can ever be proven conclusively.

However, the fact that it is self-evident, and the fact that it's contents can be cross-referenced and pass the trials of the Historical Method clearly demonstrate that the degree of probability is very high that Tacitus mentions the execution of Jesus of Nazareth by Pontius Pilate.

And you have provided no reasonable argument to contest that.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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25-01-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Jesus myth
Declaring something self-evident doesn't make it so.

Listen, go argue with someone you're willing to listen to and treat with respect. You clearly have decided that I am not entitled to that respect, and that's fine.
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25-01-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(25-01-2014 10:00 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Declaring something self-evident doesn't make it so.

Okay, so if I see a chair in the room, and then say, "There's a chair in the room," and everyone can see it, I should suppose that the chair is NOT in the room?

Really?

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