Jesus myth
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-01-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: Jesus myth
You must think people are treating you with disrespect often.

I suggest you review the thread and ask yourself where the cycle of disrespect began. I will do the same.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-01-2014, 05:03 PM
RE: Jesus myth
(29-01-2014 04:55 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  You must think people are treating you with disrespect often.

I suggest you review the thread and ask yourself where the cycle of disrespect began. I will do the same.

Agreed

Having problems with your computer? Visit our Free Tech Support thread for help!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-01-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Jesus myth
The vast majority of historians believe Jesus existed, I don't think atheists are doing themselves any favours by attempting to discount Jesus the person. It reeks of desperation. If you're going to take a scholarly and consistent path, opposing Jesus as the son of God is a better approach.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-01-2014, 05:25 PM
RE: Jesus myth
Free: I reread the thread and I think we both owe each other an apology. We each clearly got frustrated early on (I still contend you did not understand the points I was making and responded with strong answers to questions I did not ask. And I can see why you were frustrated with my refusal to see your points -- but it's because the points you made were missing the questions I was asking). You did get condescending, I did get defensive, and we talked past each other instead of to each other. I'm sorry.

I do not agree with your conclusion on the value of the line in Tacitus. While I agree that the line contributes to historicity when added to other pieces of evidence, I do not believe the addition of that line to other pieces of evidence is warranted. Josephus is better for that purpose.

Brownshirt: Appeal to the majority and appeal to authority would have led me from my cults to mainstream Christianity. I continue to believe that a historic Jesus offers a better explanation for the rise of Christianity than a completely mythic one. But I reach that conclusion at this stage in my research on the subject, still open to evidence and arguments from both sides, because that's what skeptics do. The motto of this site is "Assume nothing; Question everything," is it not?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TwoCultSurvivor's post
29-01-2014, 05:28 PM
RE: Jesus myth
(29-01-2014 05:25 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Free: I reread the thread and I think we both owe each other an apology. We each clearly got frustrated early on (I still contend you did not understand the points I was making and responded with strong answers to questions I did not ask). You did get condescending, I did get defensive, and we talked past each other instead of to each other. I'm sorry.

I do not agree with your conclusion on the value of the line in Tacitus. While I agree that the line contributes to historicity when added to other pieces of evidence, I do not believe the addition of that line to other pieces of evidence is warranted. Josephus is better for that purpose.

Brownshirt: Appeal to the majority and appeal to authority would have led me from my cults to mainstream Christianity. I continue to believe that a historic Jesus offers a better explanation for the rise of Christianity than a completely mythic one. But I reach that conclusion at this stage in my research on the subject, still open to evidence and arguments from both sides, because that's what skeptics do. The motto of this site is "Assume nothing; Question everything," is it not?

I also apologize. I know I can be an asshole at times, but I just get that way when I feel I'm not being respected at all.

Below is where I think it all began.

Quote:There is no indication whatsoever that Tacitus investigated independent records to verify the execution of Jesus.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid474699

I then listed several records of text from Annals which demonstrates that Tacitus was researching other historians and other records for his works, with the crowning glory being that right at the beginning of his retelling of the Great Fires of Rome- which includes the execution of Christus by Pontius Pilate- he clearly states that he was recounting what other authors have written.

Of course this does not conclusively prove that Tacitus definitely got his info about the execution from those previous Roman historians, but at the very least it most definitely demonstrates an indication of such.

Think about it. If Christus was meaningless to us, and we knew that Tacitus used the records of previous historians to show how some "unknown" Christus dude was executed by a Roman officer, we wouldn't have a doubt in the world about it. But because it's Christ, well now, that's where bias creeps in.

Why take that one line out and question it any more than we were to take out the entire story of the Great Fires of Rome? This is what I mean by cherry-picking; if we take that one line out, then we may as well throw the entire story about the fires out. The Christus line is part of the story of the Great Fires of Rome.

Then, you replied to me with this:

Quote:Notice that Tacitus does NOT indicate he is relying on records when he discusses Christus. On the fire, yes. And it is the fire of which he writes.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid474750

Now, because I met the task of demonstrating some indication of where Tacitus got his info from, and you replied with the above, I then said the following:

Quote:This argument fails the test of reason and also falls into the category of fallacies known as Moving The Goalposts

I provided evidence to meet your demand, but then you demanded greater evidence, specifically, some kind of evidence regarding the one line about Christus. That qualifies as Moving the Goalposts. You did not give the evidence provided its due, and decided to pinpoint one line in all the Great Fires of Rome.

Why? If you were trully indifferent towards it, then you wouldn't even think of asking for greater evidence when reasonable evidence has already been provided. You did not acknowledge the fact that reasonable evidence had already been provided, and instead wanted something beyond reasonable.

Next, you said the following:

Quote:This is NOT moving the goalposts! Come on, you know better than that! I said specifically in my post that there's no indication he used records to substantiate the information regarding Jesus' execution. I never, ever said he did not substantiate his information elsewhere!

And that's where things started to heat up, as indicated by your exclamation marks. You simply didn't like the "Moving the Goalposts" accusation any more than I liked it when you ignored reasonable evidence.

Things went south from there. I got asshole-ism, you got brash, and the 72 virgins waiting for us in the Islamic version of heaven said, "To hell with those two idiots, let's fuck somebody else."

Big Grin

Having problems with your computer? Visit our Free Tech Support thread for help!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Free's post
29-01-2014, 05:41 PM
RE: Jesus myth
Actually, I got three of them. It was a good night.

I won't nitpick your post if you won't nitpick mine.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TwoCultSurvivor's post
29-01-2014, 05:42 PM
RE: Jesus myth
(29-01-2014 05:41 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Actually, I got three of them. It was a good night.

I won't nitpick your post if you won't nitpick mine.

Agreed.

Thumbsup

Having problems with your computer? Visit our Free Tech Support thread for help!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Free's post
29-01-2014, 05:46 PM
RE: Jesus myth
I think I'm gonna cry.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
----
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-01-2014, 05:47 PM
RE: Jesus myth
(29-01-2014 05:46 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  I think I'm gonna cry.

Screw you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-01-2014, 05:50 PM
RE: Jesus myth
(29-01-2014 05:47 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 05:46 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  I think I'm gonna cry.

Screw you.

Maybe "she" is another of those 72 virgins?

Having problems with your computer? Visit our Free Tech Support thread for help!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: