Jesus myth
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
05-01-2014, 08:21 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(05-01-2014 07:51 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  wow

This wasn't like my thesis or anything lol. When you browse religious forums and have debated religion for years it is always the same round robin posits. I like to spice things up and when I see an interesting new spin, or at least a perspective or theory i am unfamiliar with, I like to pick that ball up and toss it onto the field, never know where it takes you.

Fair enough, but if it's something you're testing out, I would suggest you do so with less dogmatism and dismissiveness. I have a master's degree too. In fact, I have two of them, and am working on a PhD. My degrees are in ancient Near Eastern studies, Jewish studies, biblical studies, and theology. When you toss out an old hobbyist canard that has no basis whatsoever in fact and then tell me, when I correct your claims, that I need to look somewhere besides a wiki, you don't come across as just feeling out the possibilities.

(05-01-2014 07:51 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Sometimes the ball hits the field, rolls five feet and never moves again. Sometimes the opposing team grabs the ball and runs with it, and sometimes flags get dropped on the play.

Regardless, this sparked conversation, and I would submit to you that there is a chance a reader got a seed planted, an interest to look into Nicaea, the influence of Constantine and may have even broadened their knowledge base because of it.

If they went out looking for confirmation of your claims, they're going to find websites that speak with as much and more conviction about it, and if they like the sounds of it, they're going to stop looking, and then they're going to be the person barking at others in discussion forums about how traditional history has it all wrong. That's not a step forward in my mind.

(05-01-2014 07:51 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  There were a lot of interesting things done by Constantine and the council that directly influenced Christianity as it is today in a big way. Most people just think they established the trinity concept, or agreed to posit jesus as son of god etc. A lot of things happened there, or so it seems.

I don't claim to be a scholar, my major is in Criminal Justice with specialization in Homeland Security from St Leo University. So outside of world religions, quest for wisdom etc type courses that were a requisite, I dont have a lot of formal education in the field. So my experience in reference to formal education and the discussion of religion has zero relevance here, I simply explain that due to bucky ball's implication about my education.

I think the reaction about your education was more a result of the vehemence with which you asserted and defended an indefensible position. The misspelling was likely just a catalyst.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-01-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(05-01-2014 07:56 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Where I come from, people with Masters degrees know the difference between "than" and "then".

Where I come from, people with master's degrees know that the "s" in "master's" is possessive. Smartass

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes maklelan's post
05-01-2014, 08:30 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(05-01-2014 08:21 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 07:51 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  wow

This wasn't like my thesis or anything lol. When you browse religious forums and have debated religion for years it is always the same round robin posits. I like to spice things up and when I see an interesting new spin, or at least a perspective or theory i am unfamiliar with, I like to pick that ball up and toss it onto the field, never know where it takes you.

Fair enough, but if it's something you're testing out, I would suggest you do so with less dogmatism and dismissiveness. I have a master's degree too. In fact, I have two of them, and am working on a PhD. My degrees are in ancient Near Eastern studies, Jewish studies, biblical studies, and theology. When you toss out an old hobbyist canard that has no basis whatsoever in fact and then tell me, when I correct your claims, that I need to look somewhere besides a wiki, you don't come across as just feeling out the possibilities.

(05-01-2014 07:51 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Sometimes the ball hits the field, rolls five feet and never moves again. Sometimes the opposing team grabs the ball and runs with it, and sometimes flags get dropped on the play.

Regardless, this sparked conversation, and I would submit to you that there is a chance a reader got a seed planted, an interest to look into Nicaea, the influence of Constantine and may have even broadened their knowledge base because of it.

If they went out looking for confirmation of your claims, they're going to find websites that speak with as much and more conviction about it, and if they like the sounds of it, they're going to stop looking, and then they're going to be the person barking at others in discussion forums about how traditional history has it all wrong. That's not a step forward in my mind.

(05-01-2014 07:51 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  There were a lot of interesting things done by Constantine and the council that directly influenced Christianity as it is today in a big way. Most people just think they established the trinity concept, or agreed to posit jesus as son of god etc. A lot of things happened there, or so it seems.

I don't claim to be a scholar, my major is in Criminal Justice with specialization in Homeland Security from St Leo University. So outside of world religions, quest for wisdom etc type courses that were a requisite, I dont have a lot of formal education in the field. So my experience in reference to formal education and the discussion of religion has zero relevance here, I simply explain that due to bucky ball's implication about my education.

I think the reaction about your education was more a result of the vehemence with which you asserted and defended an indefensible position. The misspelling was likely just a catalyst.

I have an overly assertive personality, and thus I don't give ground very well. However I know when I am in over my head, and upon reading some of your postings quickly figured out you know of what you speak, so for me to attempt to jump in a ring with someone who actually has in depth knowledge on an area that i have just a basic understanding in isn't very wise.

I don't typically roll over upon receiving push back and assume the dead bug position easily. This fueled the vehemence, and when coupled with a couple glasses of wine led me to be a bit more aggressive than usual perhaps. I felt like it was an interesting subject and was worth discussing, and my intention was not to spread misinformation, for I hate that, as that is the very basis of most religions. There are still some interesting aspects of that information that is intriguing...for everyone seems t just accept the jesus story, and the bible's creation without looking deeper into it.

cheers

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
05-01-2014, 08:38 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(05-01-2014 08:30 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I have an overly assertive personality, and thus I don't give ground very well. However I know when I am in over my head, and upon reading some of your postings quickly figured out you know of what you speak, so for me to attempt to jump in a ring with someone who actually has in depth knowledge on an area that i have just a basic understanding in isn't very wise.

I don't typically roll over upon receiving push back and assume the dead bug position easily. This fueled the vehemence, and when coupled with a couple glasses of wine led me to be a bit more aggressive than usual perhaps. I felt like it was an interesting subject and was worth discussing, and my intention was not to spread misinformation, for I hate that, as that is the very basis of most religions. There are still some interesting aspects of that information that is intriguing...for everyone seems t just accept the jesus story, and the bible's creation without looking deeper into it.

cheers

Thumbsup I can understand where you're coming from. I appreciate your candor.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-01-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(04-01-2014 04:42 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 04:29 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  There must have been 100 men named Y'shua bar Yosef because the names Y'shua and Yosef were terribly common but there was no one named "Jesus Christ" much to the dismay of fundies everywhere.

Did any of them do miracles? I highly doubt it.

Well, "Jesus Christ" is a title, not a name, so even the Christians' Jesus wouldn't have been named "Jesus Christ."

I know fundies who disagree with that. They think that if you walked through early first century "Nazareth" you'd see a sign "J. Christ & Son - Carpenters."

Granted, those people are idiots.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-01-2014, 08:59 AM
RE: Jesus myth
Tolkien said that Christianity is "True Mythology".

religiondiscussion.com
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-01-2014, 09:00 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(05-01-2014 08:58 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  I know fundies who disagree with that. They think that if you walked through early first century "Nazareth" you'd see a sign "J. Christ & Son - Carpenters."

Granted, those people are idiots.

I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt and just consider them uninformed, but yes, it is a ludicrous notion.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes maklelan's post
05-01-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: Jesus myth
Jesus Christ, son of Joseph and Mary Christ. LOL.

Anyone else think Barabbas is a suspiciously artificial name? It literally means "son of the father" -- kind of redundant, isn't it? Could be anyone's "name".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Grasshopper's post
05-01-2014, 09:08 AM
RE: Jesus myth
(05-01-2014 09:02 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Anyone else think Barabbas is a suspiciously artificial name? It literally means "son of the father" -- kind of redundant, isn't it? Could be anyone's "name".

Well, we have multiple occurrences from the time period and after of the personal name Abba, "Father," so "son of Abba" is a perfectly reasonable patronym.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-01-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: Jesus myth
what are your thoughts on Nazareth? I have heard there is some discussion out there on whether or not it even existed. I think it did as per things I have stumbled across.

For example:

Nazareth was a small and insignificant village during the period of Jesus. While the site was settled during the period 600-900 BCE, it was too small to be included in the list of settlements of the tribe of Zebulon (Joshua 19:10-16), which mentions twelve towns and six villages. Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of the Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus, and her name is missing from the 63 towns in Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.

It is needless to say that the people of Judea had never heard of Nazareth. And from this we understand the reason that Pontius Pilate decorates the cross with the sign "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" (John 19:19) - meaning that the "King of the Jews" is from "nowhere."

In order to explain where Nazareth was located, the Galileans had to explain that the village was near Gat-Hyefer (Jonah's hometown,Kings II 14:25), which could be seen from Nazareth. Archeological excavations conducted in Nazareth (by Bagati since 1955) show that Nazareth was a small agricultural village settled by a few dozen families.

The pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period 600-900 BCE. After those years, there was a break in settlement until the year 200 BCE.

While Nazareth may have existed at Jesus' time, assuming that Jesus was truly a historic person, it would not have been more than a few houses with a dozen families. Just an unknown hamlet in backwater Galilee.

Source:
http://www.inisrael.com/tour/nazareth/hi...

and

The excavations by Bagati from 1955 onwards showed that the site of Nazareth had been occupied from 600-900 BC and that there was then a break until 200 BC. It's been continuously inhabited since then. In the First Century AD it was a tiny agricultural hamlet of only a dozen or so families at most. Cisterns and storage cellars carved into the chalk, along with grain storage bins, millstones and small oil mills dating from the First Century AD indicate it was a small settlement of farmers, though its proximity to Sepphoris meant some of its inhabitants may have worked there. If the detail that Joseph was a 'tekton' (the word can mean 'builder' rather than 'carpenter' per se) is historical he may have worked on the extensive building projects in the city at the time.

In 1962 archaeologists discovered a Third-Fourth Century marble tablet in Caesarea which lists the towns and villages to which refugee priests and levites went after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Nazareth is included in the list.

thoughts? agreements/dissents?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: