Jesus's genealogy problem
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15-01-2016, 04:19 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
(15-01-2016 04:01 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 01:38 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  One has to wonder how she managed to provide evidence to the religious leaders for her divine conception? I mean how else did she avoid being stoned to death for being pregnant with a child that was admittedly not her husband's? Consider


I wonder why god didn't ask Mary's dad's permission to knock her up. I mean, it's just common decency.


I makes me laugh, Joseph is often depicted in art as an old guy.

[Image: Guido_Reni_-_Saint_Joseph_and_the_Christ...roject.jpg]

It must have been pretty tough on the old codger traveling for three days on foot to get back to Bethlehem.

But then sometimes he'd depicted as younger looking. More like your friendly neighborhood child molester.

[Image: May1-St.%20Joseph%20the%20_166249.jpg]

Ick.

Check out how huge, and fat, little baby Jesus is. Poor Mary had to push that through her birth canal.
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15-01-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
(15-01-2016 04:01 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 01:38 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  One has to wonder how she managed to provide evidence to the religious leaders for her divine conception? I mean how else did she avoid being stoned to death for being pregnant with a child that was admittedly not her husband's? Consider


I wonder why god didn't ask Mary's dad's permission to knock her up. I mean, it's just common decency.


I makes me laugh, Joseph is often depicted in art as an old guy.

[Image: Guido_Reni_-_Saint_Joseph_and_the_Christ...roject.jpg]

It must have been pretty tough on the old codger traveling for three days on foot to get back to Bethlehem.

But then sometimes he'd depicted as younger looking. More like your friendly neighborhood child molester.

[Image: May1-St.%20Joseph%20the%20_166249.jpg]

Ick.

According to Jewish law, Mary was already legally married to Joseph. So if Joseph isn't the father, then Jesus was just a filthy bastard. Big Grin
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15-01-2016, 04:26 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
(15-01-2016 04:01 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  It must have been pretty tough on the old codger traveling for three days on foot to get back to Bethlehem.

This brings up the other problem with Jesus' birth (one of many)

Matthew places Jesus' home in Bethlehem and they move to Nazareth after coming back from their flight to Egypt fleeing from Herod.

Luke places Jesus' home in Nazareth, they go to Bethlehem for a census, and then go back to Nazareth after a month or so. (No Herod)

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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15-01-2016, 04:29 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
(15-01-2016 04:23 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 04:01 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I wonder why god didn't ask Mary's dad's permission to knock her up. I mean, it's just common decency.


I makes me laugh, Joseph is often depicted in art as an old guy.

[Image: Guido_Reni_-_Saint_Joseph_and_the_Christ...roject.jpg]

It must have been pretty tough on the old codger traveling for three days on foot to get back to Bethlehem.

But then sometimes he'd depicted as younger looking. More like your friendly neighborhood child molester.

[Image: May1-St.%20Joseph%20the%20_166249.jpg]

Ick.

According to Jewish law, Mary was already legally married to Joseph. So if Joseph isn't the father, then Jesus was just a filthy bastard. Big Grin

I didn't realize this. Hummm. Pretty hard to believe a normal healthy man isn't going to nail his wife and Jesus had a half brother so Joe could certainly get it up. What a fucked up story.......literally.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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15-01-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
(15-01-2016 04:19 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 04:01 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I wonder why god didn't ask Mary's dad's permission to knock her up. I mean, it's just common decency.


I makes me laugh, Joseph is often depicted in art as an old guy.

[Image: Guido_Reni_-_Saint_Joseph_and_the_Christ...roject.jpg]

It must have been pretty tough on the old codger traveling for three days on foot to get back to Bethlehem.

But then sometimes he'd depicted as younger looking. More like your friendly neighborhood child molester.

[Image: May1-St.%20Joseph%20the%20_166249.jpg]

Ick.

Check out how huge, and fat, little baby Jesus is. Poor Mary had to push that through her birth canal.

Didn't they do a C-section on her? I thought I read that somewhere!
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15-01-2016, 04:36 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
(15-01-2016 04:26 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 04:01 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  It must have been pretty tough on the old codger traveling for three days on foot to get back to Bethlehem.

This brings up the other problem with Jesus' birth (one of many)

Matthew places Jesus' home in Bethlehem and they move to Nazareth after coming back from their flight to Egypt fleeing from Herod.

Luke places Jesus' home in Nazareth, they go to Bethlehem for a census, and then go back to Nazareth after a month or so. (No Herod)

There was a preexisting Jewish prophesy that says that the messiah would come from the House of Bread (Beit Lechem), which is King David's house. A house, of course, is a line of genetic ancestry. The Christians misunderstood the text and thought that the city named after the House of Bread (Bethlehem) was to be the birthplace for the messiah. That's why they needed to place JC's birth in that particular city and wrote such a silly story to bring their character into line with what they thought was a valid messianic prophecy.

Of course, the city of the messiah's birth is irrelevant to the prophecy. Only the ancestral line matters.
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15-01-2016, 04:40 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
(15-01-2016 04:36 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 04:26 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  This brings up the other problem with Jesus' birth (one of many)

Matthew places Jesus' home in Bethlehem and they move to Nazareth after coming back from their flight to Egypt fleeing from Herod.

Luke places Jesus' home in Nazareth, they go to Bethlehem for a census, and then go back to Nazareth after a month or so. (No Herod)

There was a preexisting Jewish prophesy that says that the messiah would come from the House of Bread (Beit Lechem), which is King David's house. A house, of course, is a line of genetic ancestry. The Christians misunderstood the text and thought that the city named after the House of Bread (Bethlehem) was to be the birthplace for the messiah. That's why they needed to place JC's birth in that particular city and wrote such a silly story to bring their character into line with what they thought was a valid messianic prophecy.

Of course, the city of the messiah's birth is irrelevant to the prophecy. Only the ancestral line matters.

Not just one silly story, but two. Matthew and Luke each made up his own. As dancefortwo noted, the stories are completely different (just like the genealogies). They didn't have a clue about Jesus's ancestry or nativity, but they sure wanted him to fulfill those prophecies. So they "made it so".

Laugh out load
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15-01-2016, 04:50 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
(15-01-2016 04:29 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 04:23 PM)Aliza Wrote:  According to Jewish law, Mary was already legally married to Joseph. So if Joseph isn't the father, then Jesus was just a filthy bastard. Big Grin

I didn't realize this. Hummm. Pretty hard to believe a normal healthy man isn't going to nail his wife and Jesus had a half brother so Joe could certainly get it up. What a fucked up story.......literally.

At the time, it was customary to get married, and then wait for a year before moving in together so the husband could get the house set up for her. I guess it would have been nice to have a Bed Bath and Beyond in that era. In today's Jewish marriages, this gap is not observed.

-But no, they were legally married.
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15-01-2016, 04:51 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
But as a side note about genealogy how accurate is any of it? What did they British decide aboout accuracy of fatherhood? 82 per cent if I remember right. This was an old thing about the kings and their chances of their fahter being who they should be. My own looks into such things were so murky that back more than 3 generations nobody can know much of anything. I realize that some societies such things carried importance. But to an illiterate people you'd have to invent who your great great great grand dad was even if there was somehow certainty that nobody had even crawled thru a window when they shouldn't have done so
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15-01-2016, 05:04 PM
RE: Jesus's genealogy problem
I can think of two plausible but opposite arguments about this:

1. I don't even know my own genealogy any farther back than a couple of generations, and neither do most modern people. But our record-keeping is far superior to anything they had back then. It seems unlikely that anyone living 1000 years after King David would know their genealogy accurately going back that far.

2. But maybe this is because we don't really care that much about our genealogies. Maybe it was of supreme importance back then, and people took great pains to document it.

I don't really know which of these is true, but if I were a betting man, I would put my money on #1.
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