Jesus should've come by now?
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27-11-2014, 07:59 AM
Jesus should've come by now?
Hello everybody!

My first post here, weeehee!

So I asked this priest the other day (who has a vast knowledge about the bible)
about the verse that says something along the lines that Jesus would come back before a certain generation for about 2k years would pass away.
I also told him that the verse right after says that neither Jesus, God or anyone know which day or hour and not year, generation or month which would point in the direction that it is specifying that it will happen a day and hour during that generation.

So my question was basically: Shouldn't Jesus have returned?
He answered: It's probably just a bad translation and the word generation was most likely used to mean the whole generation of jews and until there's no jews left and they all have died out, which we all know they haven't.

I was like: Hmm... ok..

Days after, I thought to myself that it doesn't explain why the words "day or hour" is being used instead of years and month if the bible were talking about that the whole jew race has to die out first (is race a wrong word?).

So, what is your take on this?
Can this verse be defended, or does it make the whole bible crumble?
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27-11-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
Well he's got stamina...
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27-11-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(27-11-2014 07:59 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  So my question was basically: Shouldn't Jesus have returned?
He answered: It's probably just a bad translation and the word generation was most likely used to mean the whole generation of jews and until there's no jews left and they all have died out, which we all know they haven't.

So if that's a bad translation and you can just assume it means something else, what other verses in the bible don't mean what they say? If it can mean whatever you want it to mean then throw out the book and write a new one that is clear.

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27-11-2014, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2014 03:07 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
It is very odd, (considering "trinitarian doctrine") that the Father knows something that the son doesn't. On the other hand, since we know it's all horseshit, nothing should suprise anyone.
Mark 13:32 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

The fact is Jesus and Paul were both Apocalyptic Jews. They thought the end-times would come in their own lifetimes. Without getting that, the entire new cult connot be understood in context.

As far as "translations" go :
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInter.../luk21.pdf
scroll down to verse 32 to see an examination of each word in the quote.
The words preceding and following the word "genera" are nominative singular. So the question is what was the original word that the Greek word "genea" is translating, (obviously a singular word). Since we will never know, it might be interesting to see what Papyrus 66 from the Nag Hamadi find, has for that Greek word. So on the surface it looks like "(this) generation" (as in a singular meaning for a relatively small set of years) was the intended meaning, you'd have to look further to be confident.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-11-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(27-11-2014 02:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It is very odd, (considering "trinitarian doctrine") that the Father knows something that the son doesn't. On the other hand, since we know it's all horseshit, nothing should sunrise anyone.

Indeed, I'm not sunrised. Tongue

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27-11-2014, 03:08 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(27-11-2014 03:05 PM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 02:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It is very odd, (considering "trinitarian doctrine") that the Father knows something that the son doesn't. On the other hand, since we know it's all horseshit, nothing should sunrise anyone.

Indeed, I'm not sunrised. Tongue

I will burn your embassy. Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-11-2014, 03:12 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(27-11-2014 07:59 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  Hello everybody!

My first post here, weeehee!

So I asked this priest the other day (who has a vast knowledge about the bible)
about the verse that says something along the lines that Jesus would come back before a certain generation for about 2k years would pass away.
I also told him that the verse right after says that neither Jesus, God or anyone know which day or hour and not year, generation or month which would point in the direction that it is specifying that it will happen a day and hour during that generation.

So my question was basically: Shouldn't Jesus have returned?
He answered: It's probably just a bad translation and the word generation was most likely used to mean the whole generation of jews and until there's no jews left and they all have died out, which we all know they haven't.

I was like: Hmm... ok..

Days after, I thought to myself that it doesn't explain why the words "day or hour" is being used instead of years and month if the bible were talking about that the whole jew race has to die out first (is race a wrong word?).

So, what is your take on this?
Can this verse be defended, or does it make the whole bible crumble?

The Bible claims that Jesus made the following comment:

Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Jesus also advised against going to court over someone who steals something and also told people not to store up stocks or reserves for the future. Clearly, he thought the end was very near.

Likewise, Paul advised followers not to marry and that the end time was near. In this scripture he obviously believes that some of the people he is talking to will still be alive at the second coming.

I Thessalonians 4: 16-18

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

The obvious fact is that the second coming was not forthcoming at that time, or even close to being near. The 2000-year delay is a strong piece of evidence that Christianity is a failed religion.

The following quote from Stephen L. Harris, Professor Emeritus of Humanities and Religious Studies at California State University- Sacramento, completes this point with a devastating argument. Remember that Jesus was a Jew who had no intention to deviate from the Hebrew scriptures:

“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.). Instead of freeing Jews from oppressors and thereby fulfilling God’s ancient promises—for land, nationhood, kingship, and blessing—Jesus died a “shameful” death, defeated by the very political powers the Messiah was prophesied to overcome. Indeed, the Hebrew prophets did not foresee that Israel’s savior would be executed as a common criminal by Gentiles, making Jesus’ crucifixion a “stumbling block” to scripturally literate Jews. (1 Cor.1:23)”

Jesus’ immediate followers, mostly his 12 disciples, probably did not immediately identify this failure, because after Jesus’ body was likely stolen and concealed, a rumor spread that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. A sense of optimism overcame their grief about his execution and renewed some hope that he was a true messiah. If they had known then that there was to be no return in the near or long-term future, they likely would have abandoned any further activity. Despite this resurgence in their faith, they never agreed with Paul’s concept of Jesus as being divine. Anything written in the Bible to suggest that they did is probably a result of later editing by some of Paul’s followers. Such a belief would have been an exceptional departure from the Jewish faith.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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27-11-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
He already came again and went again and nobody noticed.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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27-11-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
So, I did a bit of research, knowing some Ancient Greek and all.

I found all the instances of "generation" in the New Testament and they are all instances of the same word in the Ancient Greek text.

Even though this word can mean quite a lot of things (from family, to origin, to race, to age, to birth), the fact that it is the exact same word in instances where it clearly means "generation" proves that there is no "bad translation" there.

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27-11-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(27-11-2014 03:26 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  So, I did a bit of research, knowing some Ancient Greek and all.

I found all the instances of "generation" in the New Testament and they are all instances of the same word in the Ancient Greek text.

Even though this word can mean quite a lot of things (from family, to origin, to race, to age, to birth), the fact that it is the exact same word in instances where it clearly means "generation" proves that there is no "bad translation" there.

I don't think you're reading it with the right wilfully ignorant cognitive dissonance guidance of the holy spirit, there, friend.

When classical-era authors use a word, it means precisely what latter-day apologists want it to mean.

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