Jesus should've come by now?
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15-12-2014, 03:19 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(27-11-2014 07:59 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  Hello everybody!

My first post here, weeehee!

So I asked this priest the other day (who has a vast knowledge about the bible)
about the verse that says something along the lines that Jesus would come back before a certain generation for about 2k years would pass away.
I also told him that the verse right after says that neither Jesus, God or anyone know which day or hour and not year, generation or month which would point in the direction that it is specifying that it will happen a day and hour during that generation.

So my question was basically: Shouldn't Jesus have returned?
He answered: It's probably just a bad translation and the word generation was most likely used to mean the whole generation of jews and until there's no jews left and they all have died out, which we all know they haven't.

I was like: Hmm... ok..

Days after, I thought to myself that it doesn't explain why the words "day or hour" is being used instead of years and month if the bible were talking about that the whole jew race has to die out first (is race a wrong word?).

So, what is your take on this?
Can this verse be defended, or does it make the whole bible crumble?

Weasel words (in other words he has no idea. But he'll yammer a bit about what he knows of the bible, give it a little spin, and hope that you believe him because he's a priest and you're not). He might even believe himself. Oh, and welcome to the forum. I am a newbie as well.
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15-12-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(15-12-2014 12:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Huh?

Would it satisfy you then, if I said neither Christians nor atheists can prove a hurricane is good or bad? If so, then you also can neither praise nor condemn God for them...

Point taken. But an "all loving" god whose "children have been redeemed" through the sacrifice of "his only begotten son" wouldn't be such a dick, would he ? So maybe it comes down to the fact that "SHIT HAPPENS".

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16-12-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(15-12-2014 12:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-12-2014 12:16 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  There is no answer for your question that will satisfy you, since you have pre-decided what "harm" is and what good and bad are. Apparently you have not only gone with the New Atheists to agree that there are objective morals, but gone way beyond them and their logical argumentation to conclude that objectively speaking ALL suffering and "harm" - whatever that means - is "wrong".

If we truly are on a level playing field, perhaps you will explain how it can be good that people SURVIVE hurricanes before asking me to develop an apologetic against the "wrongness" of people DYING in hurricanes.

You are SO drunk on the Kool-ade. Why does your fucking god, who *said* one could ask anything in his name and it would be given them, send ANY fucking hurricane in the first place, when SO many of you holy rollers tried to pray it away ?

I see you have an excuse for absolutely anything. The DEATH of ONE innocent child, supposedly protected by your omnipotent deity is not "measured" against other children. No one is arguing that good and evil "ballance out".

Do try a bit harder when you're not so drunk on your cult.

I don't drink unto drunkenness. Were you under the influence as you wrote this? I hope not.

I can't speak for every theist who prays, but a balanced prayer instead of "Stop this hurricane, Lord!" would be "Help those afflicted to see your greater plan and purposes" or "We know these great things of nature befall us, please help us be safe and help many others to be safe" and so on.

Nor am I arguing that good and evil balance out. I'm arguing that on a level playing field, before you give the if proposition, "If God causes hurricanes he is bad" you have to define good and bad and look at the big picture as well. Any claims against the idea of a god that are anthropocentric are one-sided and incomplete.

I mean, we do have some Bible verses here. Remember when Jesus talked of a tower that fell on people and killed them? He told us not to suppose that the people it fell on were worse sinners than anyone else. Stuff happens in a fallen world, a fallen cosmos.

The difference is I neither say God has no clue about hurricanes or that He desires to cause unneeded suffering or unnecessary suffering. That's what the butterfly effect and looking at macro-events like hurricanes is about.

I'm afraid you and some other atheists I know seem to take suffering personally in terms of God MAKES you suffer. People can suffer and do things about suffering including:

*meditation
*prayer
*taking medicine and medical advice
*alleviating suffering of others - like going to sites struck by hurricanes

I know it's not a logical argument in debate but your post and some others are really just "whiny" about suffering to me. Get over it.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-12-2014, 12:39 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(16-12-2014 12:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-12-2014 12:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are SO drunk on the Kool-ade. Why does your fucking god, who *said* one could ask anything in his name and it would be given them, send ANY fucking hurricane in the first place, when SO many of you holy rollers tried to pray it away ?

I see you have an excuse for absolutely anything. The DEATH of ONE innocent child, supposedly protected by your omnipotent deity is not "measured" against other children. No one is arguing that good and evil "ballance out".

Do try a bit harder when you're not so drunk on your cult.

I don't drink unto drunkenness. Were you under the influence as you wrote this? I hope not.

I can't speak for every theist who prays, but a balanced prayer instead of "Stop this hurricane, Lord!" would be "Help those afflicted to see your greater plan and purposes" or "We know these great things of nature befall us, please help us be safe and help many others to be safe" and so on.

Nor am I arguing that good and evil balance out. I'm arguing that on a level playing field, before you give the if proposition, "If God causes hurricanes he is bad" you have to define good and bad and look at the big picture as well. Any claims against the idea of a god that are anthropocentric are one-sided and incomplete.

I mean, we do have some Bible verses here. Remember when Jesus talked of a tower that fell on people and killed them? He told us not to suppose that the people it fell on were worse sinners than anyone else. Stuff happens in a fallen world, a fallen cosmos.

The difference is I neither say God has no clue about hurricanes or that He desires to cause unneeded suffering or unnecessary suffering. That's what the butterfly effect and looking at macro-events like hurricanes is about.

I'm afraid you and some other atheists I know seem to take suffering personally in terms of God MAKES you suffer. People can suffer and do things about suffering including:

*meditation
*prayer
*taking medicine and medical advice
*alleviating suffering of others - like going to sites struck by hurricanes

I know it's not a logical argument in debate but your post and some others are really just "whiny" about suffering to me. Get over it.

Let's "interpret" what you just said -"I don't know why my god is a dick, quit bothering me!"

The problem of evil strips your god of its power and its rationality.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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16-12-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
(16-12-2014 12:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I mean, we do have some Bible verses here.

i.e., "I know because bible. And the bible is true because bible."

(16-12-2014 12:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm afraid you and some other atheists I know seem to take suffering personally in terms of God MAKES you suffer.

You believe your god makes everything. Therefore, everything that causes anyone to suffer is made by your god. You believe your god is omnipotent. Therefore, your god could choose not to make anything that causes people to suffer. So yes, your god DOES make people suffer. And, for the record, this is not ALLOWING people to suffer - a distinction many theists like to make (not that it makes much difference anyway) - this is clearly MAKING people suffer. You cannot logically get around that. That's why "mysterious ways" exists.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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16-12-2014, 01:00 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2014 04:17 PM by guitar_nut.)
RE: Jesus should've come by now?
Quote:
(16-12-2014 12:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I know it's not a logical argument in debate but your post and some others are really just "whiny" about suffering to me. Get over it.

The English language does not contain words strong enough to state my disgust at your comment.

Mods, is there a feature to hide quoted comments from users on the ignore list? There's got to be a way to update the filters. I'm getting tired of coming across this sort of shite.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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