Jesus was a terrorist!
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17-06-2011, 05:16 PM
Jesus was a terrorist!
I am sure a careful reading of the gospels reveals that Jesus was a terrorist.

A terrorist is someone who is willing to use violence to achieve political aims.

There is no doubt that in the decades before, during and after Jesus’ time many of the Palestinian Jews, and particularly the poor peasant Jews of Galilee, felt degraded and oppressed by the Romans who had killed or sold into slavery many of their relatives. Many Jewish Galilean peasants were even angry with their more urban fellow Jews who had partially assimilated into the Graeco-Roman culture.
A young pure-blooded Jew like Jesus would have hated the Romans with a passion. He would have regarded Romans as an inferior class of people, not God’s chosen, illegitimate impostors who ruled only by virtue of the fact they had a very powerful and brutal army. We should appreciate that Jesus’ audience were poor, oppressed peasants who suffered under the burdens of taxation, landlessness, unemployment and perceived religious discrimination.

If something lives in the sea, looks like a fish, swims like a fish and gets caught on a hook, that something is a fish. Jesus lived in a time and place that was a hotbed of political unrest, he had the right pedigree to be a zealot, he talked, lived and died like a zealot, so therefore he was a zealot. He was the leader of a group of tough talking Galilean militants, men who were angry that Romans were in charge of God’s holy land. He wanted to free his people from Roman rule and create a glorious Israel. The evidence for this is in the Bible.

If I am right, this is a seriously powerful argument that can be used to help educate Christians about their god/man hero.

If there is enough interest in this thread I will discuss the evidence ( there is too much to release all at once). I will be seriously interested in everyone's thought about this.
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17-06-2011, 05:23 PM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
Splitting families seems indeed to be a pretty aggressive act. He was definitely a usurper if nothing else. I'm not sure if we would call him a terrorist though, depends on how much damage he caused.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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17-06-2011, 05:52 PM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
There is no doubt that the supposed words of Jesus in the gospels have torn families apart.

I'm referring to the real historical character Jesus, who i believe probably existed. I think he was a young Jewish militant. I don't think he was a preacher of benign ethics, but a man who tried to start a war with Rome.

Jesus wanted to be a king, and he was willing to use violence to achieve his aims . He said

“But as for my enemies who did not want me for their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence.” (Luke 19:27 NJB)
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17-06-2011, 05:53 PM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
Lets see.

Jesus bought the bar at a wedding.
He touched and healed lepers.
He blessed children.
He told people to give money to the poor, pay their taxes, take care of their aged parents.
He healed the blind.
He fed the hungry.
He refused to call down fire from heaven.
He forgave an adulteress and a prostitute.
He died for people who hated him and forgave his killers.

I guess terrorists were different then.

He was part of my dream, of course--but then I was part of his dream, too!
--Alice
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17-06-2011, 05:55 PM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
As someone who hasn't read the Bible I'm not overly qualified to comment. However, from what I know I could imagine that by today's standards he would most probably would have been classed a terrorist, whether or not he would warrant that title is another matter.

I find there's a very thin (practically non-existent) line between terrorists and freedom fighters at times. A lot of the time it seems to depend which side of the fence you're on.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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17-06-2011, 06:05 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2011 06:37 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
Hi Pilgrim, thanks for your comment.

There is no argument that Jesus as he is written up in the gospels did do those nice things. What we need to realise is that the gospels were written many decades after Jesus' death by people trying to convince others to join a new cult. I believe the benign aspects of Jesus' bibliography are fabricated.

First century Galilee was a hotbed of political unrest. Peasant Galileans hated their Roman oppressors. I believe if we read the gospels bearing this in mind we get very strong hints of who the real Jesus was. For example Jesus said

"From the time of John the Baptist the Kingdom of heaven has been advancing violently, and the violent take it by force." (Matthew 11;12)

“…if you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” (Luke 22: 36 NJB). Jesus was getting his fellow Jews ready for the big fight. He knew nothing about “blessed are the peacemakers” and “turn the other cheek”. When push came to shove a determined young Jesus was ready to fight for God, for Israel and for his own glory!
Whether you are called a "freedom fighter" or something else, if you are willing to use violence to achieve your political aims, you are by definition a terrorist
Consider how Jesus was arrested...

There is no doubt Jesus and his disciples were outplayed. The Romans made the first move by arresting him in the garden of Gethsemane while the Jewish populace slept. John’s Gospel claimed a cohort of Roman soldiers was sent to arrest him:
“Judas the traitor knew the place well, since Jesus had often met his disciples there, and he bought the cohort to this place together with a detachment of guards sent by the chief priests and Pharisees, all with lanterns and torches and weapons.” (John 18:3 J.B). Matthew called this crowd “a great multitude with swords and clubs”. Luke called them a “multitude”. Mark claimed they came “from the chief priests, the scribes and the elders.” (Mark 14:43 NJB). A cohort was a uniquely Roman term referring to 500 Roman soldiers, roughly equivalent to 40 football teams of men. Would the Romans have sent this many soldiers to arrest a benign, peace-loving preacher who thought he was God? Of course not. Jesus was a big fish with an entourage of supporters and he needed to be decisively crushed.
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17-06-2011, 08:34 PM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
I can't take this seriously for four reasons.

1 - You can't be serious.

2 - Your definition of terrorist is just plain old wrong.

3 - What Pilgrim said.

4 - There is no doubt that in the decades before, during and after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's time many of the American blacks, and particularly the poor blacks of Atlanta, felt degraded and oppressed by the whites who had killed or sold into slavery many of their relatives. Many American blacks were even angry with their more urban fellow blacks who had partially assimilated into the white American culture. A young pure-blooded black man like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would have hated the whites with a passion. He would have regarded whites as an inferior class of people, not God’s chosen, illegitimate impostors who ruled only by virtue of the fact they had a very powerful and brutal army. We should appreciate that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s audience were poor, oppressed blacks who suffered under the burdens of taxation, landlessness, unemployment and perceived racial discrimination.

If something lives in the sea, looks like a fish, swims like a fish and gets caught on a hook, that something is a fish. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. lived in a time and place that was a hotbed of political unrest, he had the right pedigree to be a zealot, he talked, lived and died like a zealot, so therefore he was a zealot. He was the leader of a group of tough talking American blacks, men who were angry that whites were in charge. He wanted to free his people from white rule and create a glorious black kingdom.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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17-06-2011, 09:39 PM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
(17-06-2011 08:34 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I can't take this seriously for four reasons.

1 - You can't be serious.

2 - Your definition of terrorist is just plain old wrong.

3 - What Pilgrim said.

4 - There is no doubt that in the decades before, during and after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's time many of the American blacks, and particularly the poor blacks of Atlanta, felt degraded and oppressed by the whites who had killed or sold into slavery many of their relatives. Many American blacks were even angry with their more urban fellow blacks who had partially assimilated into the white American culture. A young pure-blooded black man like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would have hated the whites with a passion. He would have regarded whites as an inferior class of people, not God’s chosen, illegitimate impostors who ruled only by virtue of the fact they had a very powerful and brutal army. We should appreciate that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s audience were poor, oppressed blacks who suffered under the burdens of taxation, landlessness, unemployment and perceived racial discrimination.

If something lives in the sea, looks like a fish, swims like a fish and gets caught on a hook, that something is a fish. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. lived in a time and place that was a hotbed of political unrest, he had the right pedigree to be a zealot, he talked, lived and died like a zealot, so therefore he was a zealot. He was the leader of a group of tough talking American blacks, men who were angry that whites were in charge. He wanted to free his people from white rule and create a glorious black kingdom.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Hi Ghost. Yes I am serious. I challenge you to put your conceptions about Jesus to the side and read what is in the gospels. I also encourage you to read about the socio-political climate of first century Galilee. For example there were major insurrections against the Romans in 4BC, 6CE and 66-70CE. The dead sea scrolls contain stories and pictures of a revenge filled fantasy war in which the Jews were victorious against the Romans.

terrorism |ˈterəˌrizəm|
noun
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. (New Oxford American dictionary)

terrorist |ˈterərist|
noun
a person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims. ( New Oxford American Dictionary)

Please consider my reply to pilgrim.

The analogy with Martin Luther King ( who was a pacifist) is not valid.

- MLK did not try to overthrow the government, Jesus did

- Jesus said “'Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth: it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34 NJB) and
“... if you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” (Luke 22:36 NJB) .
“But as for my enemies who did not want me for their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence.” (Luke 19:27 NJB).
I challenge you to find a similar MLK quote

-MLK tried to bring peace to the world. Jesus said
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth: it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law. A man’s enemies will be those of his own household. Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39 NJB).

-MLK respected those who disagreed with him. Jesus said
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...woe to you, blind guides...You blind fools!...You blind men!...You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” (Matthew 23:13-34 NJB).
“Next he will say to those on his left hand ‘Go away from me with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’’’ (Matthew 25:41 NJB)
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17-06-2011, 10:36 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2011 10:40 PM by blasphemy fan.)
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
I have never felt any need to read something so useless as the bible, but I would be interested to see more of the evidence that the zombie was also a terrorist. It really doesn't seem all that far fetched that the idiots promoting the zombie folklore would put it (him?) in this such light. To me, given the bible's accounts of the nameless one's misadventures in diplomacy. this seems like a natural progression.

What they ( the writers of the bible ) actually created was the perfectly dysfunctional family of omnipotent beings!

Siggy Freud & God in "Analyze This! Part 3" Tongue

Seth should do a video on that movie idea!

Oxymoron: "Religious teaching"
"Simple common sense goes out the window when religion comes in through the door." Me (Blasphemy Fan )
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17-06-2011, 11:38 PM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
(17-06-2011 06:05 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  First century Galilee was a hotbed of political unrest. Peasant Galileans hated their Roman oppressors. I believe if we read the gospels bearing this in mind we get very strong hints of who the real Jesus was. For example Jesus said

"From the time of John the Baptist the Kingdom of heaven has been advancing violently, and the violent take it by force." (Matthew 11;12)
Huh The kind of reasoning this represents can be used to “prove” almost anything about anyone. If it’s only history, a bit of serious investigation will lead to sounder conclusions. If it's a modern situation, the consequences can be dangerous.

To take a snippet or two from an unreliable source, combine it with a broad generalization about a culture one never experienced and draw a dramatic conclusion is exactly the kind of logic that George W used to invade Iraq.

He was part of my dream, of course--but then I was part of his dream, too!
--Alice
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