Jesus was a terrorist!
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14-12-2016, 09:40 PM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2016 11:11 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
(14-12-2016 09:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  People deny their own culture all the time. Uncle toms. Black Republicans, American Atheists. And there was no single agreed upon conception of what it meant to be Jewish at the time of Jesus, but a great deal of diversity, particular in a political climate not locked out from a variety of external influences. Clearly some jews at the time had no problem harmonizing greek and jewish religious idea, such as Philo. Perhaps his jew card should have been revoked?

So your argument, that no Jew, in a socio-political setting exposed to variety of different influence, greek/roman influences, would have incorporated such influences into their own particular views, doesn't hold up.

One problem . JESUS himself said "not one jot or tittle .... bla bla bla"
Oops. Jesus refutes your bullshit.... unless it was all made up a few centuries later.

Quote:Secondly no one actually engaged in cannablism, they incorporated the significance of flesh and blood, into their communion ritual, as symbolic representation of Christ himself. And judging that this was an early belief, and that no real controversy about it is indicated in any of our early writings, it seems it was more offensive to you, than to early jews.

That's NOT what the Catholic Church teaches, and BILLIONS of Christians believe.
No one said anything about "symbolic". You made that up.

Quote:Not mention out of all the disputes the early followers of Jesus had amongst each other, the lord supper ritual, seemed to be among them? You would think if was as controversial as you make it out to be, that we'd expect to see rifts about is, as we do when it comes to circumcision, or eating pork.

That's exactly right. They cooked it all up much much much later, in the 2nd Century to compete with the Greek and other culture's thanksgiving festivals. Thanks for agreeing with exact point.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-12-2016, 02:47 AM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
(14-12-2016 07:43 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-12-2016 03:11 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  You clearly don't understand the history. Jesus, if he existed, was a Jew. James, his brother was a Jew. All of Jesus' followers were Jews. They were Nazarenes. They opposed Rome. None of them were Christians. Christianity was something else invented by St Paul and others. Please read that again. if you don't believe me just do some research for yourself.

None of the early followers of Jesus (whether you want to call them Christians are not) advocated violence against Rome, not James, not Jesus, no one.

You're just stretching here, when you have very little to no evidence in support of your suggestion.

And just to confront one of your distortions of scripture:

" I think he was campaigning to start a war. Anyone who stood in his way became the enemy. He said
“But as for my enemies who did not want me for their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence.” (Luke 19:27 NJB). "

The Luke 19, passage is part of a parable, with a clear historical analogy, which would have been obvious to his audience at the time but maybe not us. Luke's Jesus is not referring to himself as the king in parable, but alluding to Herod Archelaus.

Luke 19 relevant passages of the parable: ", “A nobleman went off to a distant country to obtain the kingship for himself and then to return.....
His fellow citizens, however, despised him and sent a delegation after him to announce, ‘We do not want this man to be our king."

Jesus was clearly alluding to this historical event in the parable:

"After the death of Herod the Great, his son Archelaus traveled to Rome to receive the title of king. A delegation of Jews appeared in Rome before Caesar Augustus to oppose the request of Archelaus. Although not given the title of king, Archelaus was made ruler over Judea and Samaria."

No.

Go back and read Luke chapter 19...I'll even provide a link for you. Jeebus was referring to himself.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19
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15-12-2016, 06:33 AM
Jesus was a terrorist!
(14-12-2016 09:40 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  One problem . JESUS himself said "not one jot or tittle .... bla bla bla"
Oops. Jesus refutes your bullshit.... unless it was all made up a few centuries later.

Yet it's the same Jesus in the Gospels saying it, lol.

Quote:That's NOT what the Catholic Church teaches, and BILLIONS of Christians believe.
No one said anything about "symbolic". You made that up.

Except they are eating bread and drinking wine, not actual flesh and blood.

Quote:That's exactly right. They cooked it all up much much much later, in the 2nd Century to compete with the Greek and other culture's thanksgiving festivals. Thanks for agreeing with exact point.

Nope, Paul writes of the practice in the first century, 50ad. So there goes that conclusion of yours.

Try harder next time.





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"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-12-2016, 06:40 AM
Jesus was a terrorist!
(15-12-2016 02:47 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(14-12-2016 07:43 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  None of the early followers of Jesus (whether you want to call them Christians are not) advocated violence against Rome, not James, not Jesus, no one.

You're just stretching here, when you have very little to no evidence in support of your suggestion.

And just to confront one of your distortions of scripture:

" I think he was campaigning to start a war. Anyone who stood in his way became the enemy. He said
“But as for my enemies who did not want me for their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence.” (Luke 19:27 NJB). "

The Luke 19, passage is part of a parable, with a clear historical analogy, which would have been obvious to his audience at the time but maybe not us. Luke's Jesus is not referring to himself as the king in parable, but alluding to Herod Archelaus.

Luke 19 relevant passages of the parable: ", “A nobleman went off to a distant country to obtain the kingship for himself and then to return.....
His fellow citizens, however, despised him and sent a delegation after him to announce, ‘We do not want this man to be our king."

Jesus was clearly alluding to this historical event in the parable:

"After the death of Herod the Great, his son Archelaus traveled to Rome to receive the title of king. A delegation of Jews appeared in Rome before Caesar Augustus to oppose the request of Archelaus. Although not given the title of king, Archelaus was made ruler over Judea and Samaria."

No.

Go back and read Luke chapter 19...I'll even provide a link for you. Jeebus was referring to himself.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19


I showed you the actual historical reference. I've read that chapter quite a bit. Luke and Mathew do you use elements of the passage differently, and to different effect. But Luke rendition of it is a clear historical reference to Herod Archallias, a reference his audience would clearly of gotten. A reference so evident that a number of bibles highlight it in the footnotes.

In fact the story of Zacheaus, the Pharisees and their treatment of the disciples, indicate also in context that Lukes Jesus wasn't referring to himself.




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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-12-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
(15-12-2016 06:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Except they are eating bread and drinking wine, not actual flesh and blood.
Quote:That's not what the Catholics say. The laugh is on you. BILLIONS of them.

[quote]
Nope, Paul writes of the practice in the first century, 50ad. So there goes that conclusion of yours.

Try harder next time.

I don't have to do ANYTHING until you prove your ASSertions, and PROVE what exactly you claim he was talking about. Good luck with that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-12-2016, 07:03 AM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
(15-12-2016 07:01 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I don't have to do ANYTHING until you prove your ASSertions, and PROVE what exactly you claim he was talking about. Good luck with that.

In the variety of passages here he offered bread and wine for them to eat. He didn't particularly pour his blood into a cup, or invite them to nibble on his arms, lol.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-12-2016, 07:11 AM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
(15-12-2016 07:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-12-2016 07:01 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I don't have to do ANYTHING until you prove your ASSertions, and PROVE what exactly you claim he was talking about. Good luck with that.

In the variety of passages here he offered bread and wine for them to eat. He didn't particularly pour his blood into a cup, or invite them to nibble on his arms, lol.

Don't be an idiot. BILLIONS of Catholics say it WAS/IS his blood, and your lazy -ass bullshit about the the same Jesus didn't answer the POINT. You said there were "exceptions". Jesus said there were not. Too bad for you.

And you haven't demonstrated "he" said anything.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-12-2016, 07:39 AM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
(15-12-2016 07:11 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Don't be an idiot. BILLIONS of Catholics say it WAS/IS his blood, and your lazy -ass bullshit about the the same Jesus didn't answer the POINT.

Yes billions of catholic say that while eating bread and drinking wine, and clearly not eating actual flesh, or drinking actual blood.

Quote:You said there were "exceptions". Jesus said there were not. Too bad for you.

Jesus said not one iota of the law shall pass away, then goes on to advocate for turn the other cheek, love your enemies, etc, making a variety of "exceptions" as you put it. So either your interpretations of what it means for "not one iota of the law shall pass away" is wrong, or the Jesus in Matthew likes to be contradictory, and make exceptions to his own rules.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-12-2016, 10:05 AM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
(15-12-2016 07:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-12-2016 07:11 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Don't be an idiot. BILLIONS of Catholics say it WAS/IS his blood, and your lazy -ass bullshit about the the same Jesus didn't answer the POINT.

Yes billions of catholic say that while eating bread and drinking wine, and clearly not eating actual flesh, or drinking actual blood.
You're kidding right? That's one of the primary differences between Catholic and at least many Protestant denominations - the belief that communion consists of eating real flesh and blood actually (as opposed to symbolically) converted from bread and wine. If you are "Catholic" and don't believe that, you may as well be Protestant.

Unbelievable that you don't understand your own faith. Dodgy

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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15-12-2016, 10:15 AM
RE: Jesus was a terrorist!
Yup, consubstantiation = protestant
transubstantiation = catholic if I remember correctly.
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