Jewish Graveyard Desecration
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27-02-2017, 11:30 AM
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
It's probably the 70 bomb threats to Jewish community centers and preschools in 2 months that is fueling the fears of terrorism with the grave disturbances. On the day the news reported about the St. Louis cemetery vandalism, there were 11 bomb threats made, and today there was another one in South Florida.
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27-02-2017, 11:34 AM
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
Graves, like funerals, are not for the dead but for the living. Attacking the graves was attacking the living loved ones and descendants of the deceased, sending a message. It's the worst of humanity.

I think the response of the Muslim community to the desecration of the Jewish graves has shown the best of humanity.

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/22/516582971/...e-repaired

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-02-2017, 11:45 AM
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
(27-02-2017 11:30 AM)Aliza Wrote:  It's probably the 70 bomb threats to Jewish community centers and preschools in 2 months that is fueling the fears of terrorism with the grave disturbances. On the day the news reported about the St. Louis cemetery vandalism, there were 11 bomb threats made, and today there was another one in South Florida.

Yes, this is why context of cemetery desecrations that are going on matters.

The problem is far greater.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-02-2017, 12:14 PM
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
(27-02-2017 11:21 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  OLB,

Sigh...

I believe your heart is in the right place, but you've again picked the wrong battle.

I grew up near a town dedicated to cemeteries. (Seriously the living population paled compared to the dead). Many people are buried there some going back to 1800s some semi famous like Frank James, and really famous like Joe DiMaggio, Wyatt Earp beside his wife, and Levi Strauss) and I wouldn't want to see any grave desecrated. There's nothing quite like going through a cemetery -- wondering about those people. They lived, they laughed and cried, and for some all that remains is a headstone.

One of saddest ones I found was a mother and baby, died in the mid 1800s. All that remains that headstone that said they were there and they mattered.

For me it's not about religion, it's actually more about history.

Agreed. In grad school, I walked in cemeteries for exercise and to calm down, because we had a huge one next to campus. The weight of history was immense: two Revolutionary War Graves, over a dozen from the Civil War (one with an epitaph of where he was killed, one day prior to the end of his enlistment period), people younger than I who died in World War Two, and women buried with their children in ornate communal plots. And, hidden behind sets of tall bushes, not there unless you knew where to look as someone who walked there often, the Jewish section of the cemetery, shielded from view, with lines of graves with stones placed upon them, and a bench dedicated to the memory of those lost in the Holocaust.

Actually went and dug out some photos (bit off topic, but related to my post):

Revolutionary War Veteran

[Image: ARMcJzx.jpg]

Grave of a mother and her two children

[Image: Bup4kzr.jpg]

One of the graves in the Jewish section


[Image: Sdr4FQb.jpg]

The Holocaust Memorial where I always started and ended my walks

[Image: xy5n7ZX.jpg]

Like RS said, graveyards aren't for the dead, they're for the living. And to target them is to send a clear and threatening message to those whom they represent, "We don't respect you in death, we won't in life. And we intend for you to end up here alongside those we desecrated. Fear us." Combine that with the constant bomb threats against Jewish community centers over the last few months, and it becomes very frightening. Even here at my university, we've had an incident with someone carving swastikas into the white boards, and anti-Semitic stuff.

Also, it's just hit noon in my Central Time Zone, and already today there have been 8 bomb threats against Jewish centers in the United States.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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27-02-2017, 12:23 PM
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
(27-02-2017 08:11 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Live people rate in my book -- so any live person being attacked is an issue.

Dead people don't rate.

That's just it. The desecration is about the living, not the dead. Morondog explained it very well.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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27-02-2017, 12:27 PM
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
(27-02-2017 10:28 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Yes - it's a form of terrorism.

But -- it's like any other form of fucking voodoo ---- it only effects the recipient if they're willing to believe that there something special about sticking a dead motherfucker in the ground.

(I suspect the first guy to bury another guy, half expected the guy to grow back outta the ground like a seed of corn -- thus inventing religion).

There's no logical justification for wasting real estate (of which there's a limited amount) on corpses.

It's superstitious twaddle - and should be treated as such.

There are 2 different issues. One is the vandalism and its intended purpose. If the graves weren't available, these vandals would likely choose something else - maybe a Temple or its grounds, for example.

The second is the point you are trying to make about the uselessness of graves. There is a discussion to be had there, but it's a completely separate topic.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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27-02-2017, 12:32 PM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2017 01:02 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
(27-02-2017 11:45 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(27-02-2017 11:30 AM)Aliza Wrote:  It's probably the 70 bomb threats to Jewish community centers and preschools in 2 months that is fueling the fears of terrorism with the grave disturbances. On the day the news reported about the St. Louis cemetery vandalism, there were 11 bomb threats made, and today there was another one in South Florida.

Yes, this is why context of cemetery desecrations that are going on matters.

The problem is far greater.

The news says that number of bomb threats rose to 69 today, in connection to the cemetery vandalism, just as that number swelled again during the St. Louis cemetery vandalism.

Even if these cemetery vandalism incidents weren't connected to bomb threats, and even if this wasn't a hate crime that needs to be handled by the authorities for that reason alone, there is still a monetary value on the grave plots. People paid for those plots fair and square. The grave stones have monetary value and whether it's the families or the cemetery insurance company who gets stuck with the bill, an innocent party will likely be paying to replace them. The family owns the grave and the stone, and whether an outside party places the same value on that property doesn't factor into the equation. There is a deed and title to the land where the grave is and an actual, calculable monetary value attached to it. It is owned property and if someone's property is vandalized, it's a crime.
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27-02-2017, 12:36 PM
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
(27-02-2017 08:48 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  This isn't about dead people this is about targeting a group of people for their beliefs.

That's even too narrow. It's about them being jews. I think it's an educated guess that religion is the least important problem here. The group they're belonging to is.

These were also the first steps in persecuting the jews in the past. Desecrate their burrial grounds, move on to burn their places of worship and graduate to murder them.

Suffice to say, there's something related to that story that gives me hope. A muslim woman went out of her way top collect more than a 100.000 dollars for rebuilding efforts. She got a lot of internet abuse for her efforts. No big surprise there. Muslims wear a target on their backs also. For the very same groups that are behind attacks like that.
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27-02-2017, 12:38 PM
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
(27-02-2017 12:36 PM)abaris Wrote:  That's even too narrow. It's about them being jews. I think it's an educated guess that religion is the least important problem here. The group they're belonging to is.

These were also the first steps in persecuting the jews in the past. Desecrate their burrial grounds, move on to burn their places of worship and graduate to murder them.

Suffice to say, there's something related to that story that gives me hope. A muslim woman went out of her way top collect more than a 100.000 dollars for rebuilding efforts. She got a lot of internet abuse for her efforts. No big surprise there. Muslims wear a target on their backs also. For the very same groups that are behind attacks like that.

Well said and agreed.

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27-02-2017, 12:48 PM
RE: Jewish Graveyard Desecration
(27-02-2017 12:32 PM)Aliza Wrote:  The family owns the grave and the stone, and whether an outside party places the same value on that property doesn't factor into the equation. There is a deed and title to the land where the grave is and an actual, calculable monetary value attached to it. It is owned property and if someone's property is vandalized, it's a crime.

Yes, there is. But I consider that unimportant compared to the obvious intent of the vandalizing. If someone vandalized my parent's grave, monetary loss would be the last thing on my mind. It would be an attack on my memory of them. I'm only half jewish, from both my grandfathers sides, but going by what they went through in decades past, it must be even worse for jews. There's someone again feeling entitled to literally spit on their graves. In a corner of the world they least expected it to happen.

As has been said, this is about the living. It's to show them contempt by desecrating their memory of loved ones.
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