Jewish Polytheism
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01-06-2016, 02:23 PM
RE: Jewish Polytheism
(01-06-2016 09:28 AM)Aliza Wrote:  There are Christians out there who think that we Jews don't read our own scripture. I've actually met them, and they're actually told that evangelizing to Jews is really easy because we have no idea what our own book says. Facepalm

Yes, you wrote the book, but it contains prophesies of the Messiah and you rejected him when he came. That meant that you had to reinterpret the book to justify your rejection and in the process you became blind to much of the real meaning.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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01-06-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: Jewish Polytheism
(01-06-2016 02:13 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 01:57 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Why does it matter if it's true or not? We have it on record in the Talmud, so it stands to reason that we didn't make it up after the Christians started claiming this trinity stuff. We know what we wrote, we know what we meant, and any arguments that Christians present on this subject (to us) are nullified by our prior understanding of our own book.

To me, it matters because the question of why God refers to himself in the plural is not in fact *answered*, if the tradition is not true. In that case I don't at all hold that the Christian interpretation is better, but it certainly then I think throws doubt on the authenticity of the Jewish text as an account of God's interaction with Moses? And if the tradition is not true, then how can you summarily dismiss the Christian interpretation that he's refering to the trinity? As much as Christians are far less likely to have an understanding of the scripture as opposed to you, who read it in the original - not translated, your dismissal of the claim is based on what seems to me an obvious lie invented to explain an anomaly that was noticed even early on, although not so early that the scripture got corrected. Hence my question... Again, not trying to be hostile but I *am* an atheist Wink

It's our book. We say what it means. We have an unbroken chain of communication going back generations before Christianity took our book and reinterpreted it.

It's like reading a piece of poetry and telling the writer what they meant in their poem. Maybe you interpret it differently, but that doesn't supersede the writer's actual meaning.
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01-06-2016, 02:34 PM
RE: Jewish Polytheism
(01-06-2016 02:25 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 02:13 PM)morondog Wrote:  To me, it matters because the question of why God refers to himself in the plural is not in fact *answered*, if the tradition is not true. In that case I don't at all hold that the Christian interpretation is better, but it certainly then I think throws doubt on the authenticity of the Jewish text as an account of God's interaction with Moses? And if the tradition is not true, then how can you summarily dismiss the Christian interpretation that he's refering to the trinity? As much as Christians are far less likely to have an understanding of the scripture as opposed to you, who read it in the original - not translated, your dismissal of the claim is based on what seems to me an obvious lie invented to explain an anomaly that was noticed even early on, although not so early that the scripture got corrected. Hence my question... Again, not trying to be hostile but I *am* an atheist Wink

It's our book. We say what it means. We have an unbroken chain of communication going back generations before Christianity took our book and reinterpreted it.

It's like reading a piece of poetry and telling the writer what they meant in their poem. Maybe you interpret it differently, but that doesn't supersede the writer's actual meaning.

... You're not getting my line of thought at all Undecided Ah well... ETA: I'm not gonna pursue this further, so... pax?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-06-2016, 08:39 PM
RE: Jewish Polytheism
(01-06-2016 02:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 02:25 PM)Aliza Wrote:  It's our book. We say what it means. We have an unbroken chain of communication going back generations before Christianity took our book and reinterpreted it.

It's like reading a piece of poetry and telling the writer what they meant in their poem. Maybe you interpret it differently, but that doesn't supersede the writer's actual meaning.

... You're not getting my line of thought at all Undecided Ah well... ETA: I'm not gonna pursue this further, so... pax?

I got it. Smile

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01-06-2016, 09:05 PM
RE: Jewish Polytheism
(01-06-2016 08:39 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 02:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... You're not getting my line of thought at all Undecided Ah well... ETA: I'm not gonna pursue this further, so... pax?

I got it. Smile

I'm just stoopid. Dodgy
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01-06-2016, 09:20 PM
RE: Jewish Polytheism
(01-06-2016 09:05 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 08:39 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I got it. Smile

I'm just stoopid. Dodgy

You're not stupid, there are just lines of reasoning you're not allowed to tread because of your beliefs. We can simply walk down more paths with greater freedom.

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01-06-2016, 11:50 PM
RE: Jewish Polytheism
(01-06-2016 09:05 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 08:39 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I got it. Smile

I'm just stoopid. Dodgy

You know us well enough by now that if anyone genuinely thought you were stupid we'd make it absolutely clear Tongue

It's more... I said this to KC once. You and I have different ways of thinking. I can see where you're standing and you can see where I am standing, but if I try to walk over to stand where you are, or vice versa, it's like there's a glass wall. I can't actually stand there.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-06-2016, 04:08 AM
RE: Jewish Polytheism
(01-06-2016 10:12 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 09:34 AM)morondog Wrote:  Laugh out load

Um Aliza... you do realise this is a religious defense meme here? Ask reasonable question - o shit it's reasonable - invent conversation of Moses with God that neatly answers question, throw in a dose of "and those who think of this question or question this answer are deluded too". Classic bug fix.

I do realize that.... And?

And it is not a reasonable explanation or argument; it is bullshit apologetics. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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