Jews and Discrimination.
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20-09-2013, 02:55 PM
Jews and Discrimination.
Judaism is a religion, not a race, at least as far as I know. Discriminating against people based on anything other than merit isn't fair, don't get me wrong, but "Jew" isn't a race of people. I can understand that people can be culturally Jewish, just as one could be culturally Christian or Muslim without sharing the beliefs of those religions. In fact, I would argue that people are most often discriminated against based culture rather than skin color, nationality, or whatever. Don't misunderstand me, people still are discriminated against based on those things, but I think more commonly it is culture.

Jews, or Jewish descendants play an odd role compared to others. If I were bigoted against someone who came from a Jewish family, but weren't specifically believers I would be called antisemitic, or racist by many people. Many non-believing cultural people of Jewish decent still claim they are Jewish. I can't imagine, were the proverbial shoe on the other foot I would ever call the person an anti-christ, nor would I ever apply the label "Christian" to myself. So...what's the deal? Someone set me straight please. I just don't get it. Huh

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20-09-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: Jews and Discrimination.
How can someone be culturally Christian? I don't quite understand. Jews are not a race per se, no, but we are a "tribe" of sorts. A nation if you will. I'm not sure what you are asking? Why would someone be discriminating against you for being a Christian when you are in fact, not a Christian? Are you asking why atheist Jews still consider themselves Jews? The answer to that is simple - because we are Jews. If that isn't your question then I just don't know and you'll need to explain it to me further because I'm not getting it.
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21-09-2013, 01:21 AM
RE: Jews and Discrimination.
Culturally, I am a Christian. I grew up doing Christian things, got taught Christian rules, was taken to a Christian church and even to Christian concerts. If there was music playing in the car there was about a 1/3 chance it was Christian music. Christian figurines, paintings, and other imagery littered my family's houses. When my parents, or my church decided to ban or boycott something that they felt were at odds with Christianity, I did too by extension. I repeat, culturally, I am a Christian. You can say, if you like, that my culture was that of a specific type of Christian, I'd say that's fair, but it is a subset of the larger Christian culture. Just because something is the 'norm' doesn't mean it isn't part of culture. People often think of culture as it relates to something foreign or strange to them. This is not the case.

Why would someone discriminate against me? I dunno, ask any number of people in the Middle-East, north Africa, or Eastern Europe. Personally, I think I'm an alright guy on the whole.

No, you really didn't answer my question. 'In spite of being atheist I'm a Jew because I'm a Jew' is circular reasoning which explains nothing. I'm not looking to tell you that you shouldn't claim whatever label you want, honestly it doesn't affect me. I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind it. I was raised into a Christian household, however I deny Jesus as God incarnate, therefore I am not a Christian. Likewise, what I would expect to see is someone who denies the existence of the Abrahamic God to also reject the label of 'Jew'. This is often not the case and I don't know why. I was hoping to get more responses and from more people. Cufflink? DLJ?

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21-09-2013, 02:05 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2013 02:14 AM by Dena.)
RE: Jews and Discrimination.
(21-09-2013 01:21 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  No, you really didn't answer my question. 'In spite of being atheist I'm a Jew because I'm a Jew' is circular reasoning which explains nothing.

Christianity is a religion. If you don't believe in at least some basic principles, it's not your religion. There is also a difference in the religion of Judaism and Christianity. The first is based very much on belief while the latter is based on actions but that's not that important for this topic. If you asked me why I'm an American I'd say because I was born an American (or, because I became an American citizen). Similar idea.

" A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship
."
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21-09-2013, 02:13 AM
RE: Jews and Discrimination.
OK. I'll bite.

I'm a race.

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21-09-2013, 02:27 AM
RE: Jews and Discrimination.
(21-09-2013 02:13 AM)DLJ Wrote:  OK. I'll bite.

I'm a race.

Who's winning?

I AM he who is called... cat furniture.
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21-09-2013, 02:30 AM
RE: Jews and Discrimination.
(21-09-2013 02:27 AM)I Am Wrote:  
(21-09-2013 02:13 AM)DLJ Wrote:  OK. I'll bite.

I'm a race.

Who's winning?

I Am

Tongue

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21-09-2013, 04:41 AM
RE: Jews and Discrimination.
tl;dr

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Now with 40% more awesome.
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21-09-2013, 04:53 AM
RE: Jews and Discrimination.
(20-09-2013 02:55 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Judaism is a religion, not a race, at least as far as I know. Discriminating against people based on anything other than merit isn't fair, don't get me wrong, but "Jew" isn't a race of people. I can understand that people can be culturally Jewish, just as one could be culturally Christian or Muslim without sharing the beliefs of those religions. In fact, I would argue that people are most often discriminated against based culture rather than skin color, nationality, or whatever. Don't misunderstand me, people still are discriminated against based on those things, but I think more commonly it is culture.

Jews, or Jewish descendants play an odd role compared to others. If I were bigoted against someone who came from a Jewish family, but weren't specifically believers I would be called antisemitic, or racist by many people. Many non-believing cultural people of Jewish decent still claim they are Jewish. I can't imagine, were the proverbial shoe on the other foot I would ever call the person an anti-christ, nor would I ever apply the label "Christian" to myself. So...what's the deal? Someone set me straight please. I just don't get it. Huh

Why not say that there are no races, just one race, Homo Sapiens. Works for me.

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21-09-2013, 06:13 AM
RE: Jews and Discrimination.
(21-09-2013 02:05 AM)Dena Wrote:  
(21-09-2013 01:21 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  No, you really didn't answer my question. 'In spite of being atheist I'm a Jew because I'm a Jew' is circular reasoning which explains nothing.

Christianity is a religion. If you don't believe in at least some basic principles, it's not your religion. There is also a difference in the religion of Judaism and Christianity. The first is based very much on belief while the latter is based on actions but that's not that important for this topic. If you asked me why I'm an American I'd say because I was born an American (or, because I became an American citizen). Similar idea.

" A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship
."

Not everyone accepts that definition. Why do you?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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